Yet another basket chudder question - SV1000 Portal
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 29th September 2016, 12:26 AM Thread Starter
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Yet another basket chudder question

Recently, I had to explain to some mechanics that were replacing my front tire that the noise from my engine at idle was not that the engine was near catastrophic failure but in fact, just basket chudder.

I was aware of it but didn't really notice it until this encounter. I don't know if it's gotten worst and that's why I'm now noticing it or if it's always been like that and I just didn't care.

If this doesn't damage the bike in any way, I'm fine with leaving it as is. If left alone, can it damage the bike? Can the chudder get worst? I REALLY don't feel like tearing my bike apart (again).
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 29th September 2016, 12:03 PM
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If you are only hearing the noise at idle, especially when the bike is fully warmed up, it might NOT be clutch related. Could be Idle Hammer, a sound like a wooden mallet tapping the engine cases. Worse after a spirited ride and then pull up to a stop light, can be rather obvious. If raising the rpms slightly makes it go away, that is another sign it is Idle Hammer. Pulling in the clutch lever make change it as well. Caused by movement of the crankshaft at idle speed. I think the offset cylinders allow the rods to move the crank side to side just enough at very low rpm so that you hear the crank hit the thrust surface.

There is NO indication that there is ANY harm comes from this. Been around since 2002 in the first DL 1000's.

Clutch chudder isn't really a noise. It is the vibrations you feel mostly in the 2500-4000 range as you accelerate from a stop or add throttle to pass or pull a hill. The parts that cause clutch chudder can in fact make quite a bit of noise at idle and other rpms. Usually more of a "tinny" sound, not at all like Idle Hammer once you hear them both.

WERKS modified clutch baskets for your SV 1000.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 30th September 2016, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realshelby View Post
If you are only hearing the noise at idle, especially when the bike is fully warmed up, it might NOT be clutch related. Could be Idle Hammer, a sound like a wooden mallet tapping the engine cases. Worse after a spirited ride and then pull up to a stop light, can be rather obvious. If raising the rpms slightly makes it go away, that is another sign it is Idle Hammer. Pulling in the clutch lever make change it as well. Caused by movement of the crankshaft at idle speed. I think the offset cylinders allow the rods to move the crank side to side just enough at very low rpm so that you hear the crank hit the thrust surface.

There is NO indication that there is ANY harm comes from this. Been around since 2002 in the first DL 1000's.

Clutch chudder isn't really a noise. It is the vibrations you feel mostly in the 2500-4000 range as you accelerate from a stop or add throttle to pass or pull a hill. The parts that cause clutch chudder can in fact make quite a bit of noise at idle and other rpms. Usually more of a "tinny" sound, not at all like Idle Hammer once you hear them both.
It definitely only happens when the bike is at idle with the lever out. I haven't really noticed the vibration (or at least, nothing I wouldn't attribute to the bike being what it is, and for that, I don't actually mind). This is some serious clanging tho. I'll try to post a video if I can.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 30th September 2016, 01:51 PM
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There have been some engines where the nut on the main drive gear has come loose and it'll bang and rattle on the clutch basket which prevents it from coming all the way off...but it makes a racket. All things considered....I'd get in there and inspect the nut, and while you have the side cover off...take the clutch hat off and see how sloppy loose the basket actually is.

If it's the stock original basket, it's going to be loose...the only question is HOW loose. But if you find the drive nut has come off (righty-loosey) be sure to find the pieces of washer that was under it and will have shattered.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 4th April 2017, 02:25 AM Thread Starter
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Took me a while but here is the video of the sound in question: https://youtu.be/VqZWhzoHxyY

I plan on opening up the side of the engine but as I have to borrow a friend's garage to do so, I want to be able to open it and fix the problem as soon as possible as opposed to opening it, looking, not finding, re-opening it with more ideas, finding nothing, then finally paying through the nose to get it fixed professionally.

As I said in a previous reply, the noise goes away at 2k rpms.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 4th April 2017, 06:49 AM
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Yet another basket chudder question

Quote:
Originally Posted by cereberus99 View Post
Took me a while but here is the video of the sound in question: https://youtu.be/VqZWhzoHxyY



I plan on opening up the side of the engine but as I have to borrow a friend's garage to do so, I want to be able to open it and fix the problem as soon as possible as opposed to opening it, looking, not finding, re-opening it with more ideas, finding nothing, then finally paying through the nose to get it fixed professionally.



As I said in a previous reply, the noise goes away at 2k rpms.


Holy crap, that sounds really bad. Likely worse in person.

Quit running it and find the problem.

That bad it could be all kinds of things, primary nut loose, exploded magnets on rotor, rod bearing talking, clutch guts about to explode.

Is your oil full of metal debris? Is the oil gas diluted?

How long have you been running it sounding like that!?

-ms
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 4th April 2017, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
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Magnets are fine (replaced the whole unit earlier last year), no debris in the oil, oil USED to smell like gas but that was before the noise and stopped after the magneto change. I don't know when it started because it sort of just crept up on me.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 4th April 2017, 11:38 AM
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That does sound bad. For what it's worth you cannot look at a clutch basket and tell if it is worn or not. While engaged with the crank gear you can rotate the basket back and forth, if you have very much back and forth at all it means the internal parts are very worn. In your case I would VERY closely inspect the 6 springs inside the basket. There are 6 windows in the aluminum casting where you can see these springs. They are double ( smaller spring inside a larger spring ) spring. Very common on SV's to see one or more of these broken. You can take a screwdriver and try to move them around a bit, broken ones are fairly obvious. This could make the sound as it isn't continuous. Could be the crank gear nut very loose too. I am with Mike, tear into this and figure it out.
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WERKS modified clutch baskets for your SV 1000.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 5th April 2017, 12:40 AM Thread Starter
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I'll definitely check all those points when I open her up, thanks Realshelby.

Having ruled out the magnet issue, and unless I'm incredibly lucky that it's the primary nut that is loose, how would I recognize rod bearing talking or if the clutch guts are about to explode?

(I'm really starting to not look forward to tearing this bike apart )
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 5th April 2017, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cereberus99 View Post
I'll definitely check all those points when I open her up, thanks Realshelby.

Having ruled out the magnet issue, and unless I'm incredibly lucky that it's the primary nut that is loose, how would I recognize rod bearing talking or if the clutch guts are about to explode?

(I'm really starting to not look forward to tearing this bike apart )
As for a rod bearing, I can just tell in most cases. You can often tell by lower oil pressure at low RPM. I have seen many engines in the past blow up or get heavily damaged form people not cleaning oil pick up screens after clutches explode or a ton of cam chain guide debris clogs up the pickup, causing low oil pressure. Check this when the clutch cover comes off.

Check the primary as you said you will. I always hold the crank and check the torque on the gear nut. If it is at all loose, I remove the nut, washers, gear(s), and alignment key and inspect them all. If any thing at all looks suspicious, replace it. Clean the threads up on assembly and use a good medium strength thread locker. Check the crank end play by feeler gauge between the large backing washer and the thrust face on the cases. What value do you get?

For the clutch, dismantle everything and start inspecting and see what is there.

-MS
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 5th April 2017, 07:00 PM
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That is the exact sound/issue that my bike developed a few weeks ago. I opened up the right side of the bike and sure enough the primary drive nut was loose. I could easily spin it with my fingers. After taking it all apart, the main culprit was the primary drive washer (wave type), part number 21114-02F00. Mine wasn't even attached in the assembly. I found it in a couple pieces sitting inside the bottom of my casing. Part is pretty cheap (I paid like $6 and some change) but it was backordered and took a week and a half to come in. It's a pretty simple fix, just make sure you have a 30mm and 36mm socket available.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 7th April 2017, 05:00 PM
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Oof, my bike makes this noise too, but it has since I got it and assumed it was normal for these bikes. Thanks for posting this. I guess I have some work to do this weekend.

Not looking forward to it but It will be nice to not have this noise anymore.
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 7th April 2017, 06:01 PM
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I guess I need to tear into mine too, it really sounds like a box of rocks in neutral with the clutch out. Ugh.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 8th April 2017, 07:16 PM Thread Starter
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after looking around for info on the main drive nut and washer issue, I came across this post: WARNING! Engine failure possible due to incorrect assembly

Should help those that have the same issue as me (eager to open the bike up to see what's what)
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 12th April 2017, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cereberus99 View Post
after looking around for info on the main drive nut and washer issue, I came across this post: WARNING! Engine failure possible due to incorrect assembly

Should help those that have the same issue as me (eager to open the bike up to see what's what)
Yep, that's the one that got me to open her up too. I didn't think anything of it until I read that thread. Glad I came across it.

Edit: The repair was a little messy. Make sure you have a tarp or something down on the ground and a wide bucket or pan before you start the work. Coolant WILL go everywhere.
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