Simplest Smart TRE ever. - SV1000 Portal
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post #1 of 210 (permalink) Old 6th August 2007, 11:01 PM Thread Starter
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Simplest Smart TRE ever.

To do the simplest smart TRE you only have to put a 6.8kOms resistor anywhere on the pink wire that goes from the GPS to the ECU, as the example shown on the fisrt attached picture.

advantages :
- full benefits of the "classic" TRE and "smart" TRE
- no impact on the neutral map (no cold start problems)
- no intrusion on any other circuit (such as neutral light circuit)
- cheap and easy

downside :
- i don't see any...

if you want to know "how and why", please read my original post just below.
Below the original post, you may also read the "additional informations" which were gathered during the thread life (thanks to all participants)



ORIGINAL POST :

First of all, moderators may merge my post into the TRE thread if it is more appropriate. I thought this post deserved to be highlighted but i may be wrong.
And i'm sorry if this circuit has already been proposed on the board or somewhere else on the web but i definitly could'nt find it.

It is still on road testing stage but i think i found the simplest way to make a Smart TRE :

simply connecting a 6.8 KO resistor in series anywhere on the GPS pink wire (as shown on the first attached diagram).

Here is the way i found this :
The GPS-ECU stock circuit is a voltage divisor circuit (not sure of the english name of it...) as shown on this page which everyone probably knows already : http://wotid.com/tls/content/view/17/47/

According to this, there is a small formula that allows to calculate the voltage drop depending on initial voltage (usualy arround 5VDC), internal ECU resistor (1KO) and external resistor (GPS resistors) :
Ve = Vi * (R2 / (R1 + R2))
where Ve is the voltage detected by the ECU (= pink wire voltage)
Vi is the initial voltage (= to pink wire voltage when bike is in neutral)
R1 is the internal 1KO resistor
R2 is the variable GPS resistor

On the attached sheet you can see the calculed voltages with Vi=5.26 VDC (which was mesured on my bike) for the stock circuit and also with the 6.8 kO resistor added : with the 6.8 kO res, all voltages are higher than the 5th gear stock voltage which means the ECU would always "think" it is at least in 5th gear even when the bike is in lower gears.

I've also tested most of these voltages with digital multimeter on my bike and they appeared to be almost exaclty the same as the calculated ones.

My only concern was the 6xt gear : what would "think" the ECU with 21.8 kO res and 5.03 VDC ? to get the answer, i connected a 21.8 kO res (15+6.8) in paralel between the pink and the black wire and did the idle clutch in/out test. The result was i clearly felt the revs difference between clutch in and clutch out, exactly as for the basic TRE with 15 kO resistor (which i also tested to make sure the ECU behavior was the same). That result means the ECU is still "thinking" it is in 6xt gear even with 21.8 kO res.



ADDITIONAL INFORMATIONS :


>>>> The resistor i used is a 6.8 kO, 1/4 W, 5%.
I used it because it's a standard resistor value, cheap and very easy to find here.
As mentioned by Trojan, you may find a pack of 100 for 1 USD on Ebay :
http://cgi.ebay.com/Carbon-Film-Resi...2em118Q2el1247

>>>> But if it's not a standard resistor value for you local dealer, you may use a resistor with different wattage characteristics or different %. These characteristics should not have any impact on the setup.

>>>> The thing to take care of is the Ohm value. But, as truly mentioned by Prophet, there is a range of value that works for this TRE setup : you may use a resistor value between 6.2 kO and 6.8kO. This is a conservative range in which you will be 100% sure the setup will work.
As mentioned by several members, you may also combine different resistors to get the correct value within the range (such as two 3.3 kO resistors to get 6.6 kO for example).

>>>> Below the 6.2 kO value, the risk is that the TRE won't be efficent on fisrt gear (and maybe on second gear also).
>>>> Above 6.8 kO, here is my answer to Youngleadfoot who asked about using a higher value :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ykar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngleadfoot View Post
would there be aproblem using a higher rated resistor? Kcar said that he had none even though in sixth gear he makes more than the necesary resistance. if there is no downside you could use any resistor over 6.8kohms.
Yes, there may be a problem using a higher resistance. At a certain resistance threshold the ECU could "think" you're in neutral instead of sixt gear. And the neutral map is clearly not the one to ride with.
That's why i did a practical test in sixt gear with clutch in and out to make sure it doesn't switch to neutral map.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SSP.JPG (30.0 KB, 1035 views)
File Type: jpg Voltages.JPG (29.8 KB, 874 views)

Last edited by Ykar; 29th May 2008 at 09:48 PM. Reason: to add the "aditional informations" part
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post #2 of 210 (permalink) Old 6th August 2007, 11:25 PM
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I'm ok with it as it is a different take on an old issue...:supsmiley If we merge it will only get lost...


It's all done with smoke in the mirrors.

No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

Last edited by 2WIN; 6th August 2007 at 11:27 PM.
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post #3 of 210 (permalink) Old 6th August 2007, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
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Here is my Simplest Smart TRE, made with computer power supply plugs (modified to match original GPS connector plugs)
cost : 0.05 euro
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File Type: jpg DSC03404.jpg (259.2 KB, 941 views)
File Type: jpg DSC03405.jpg (273.9 KB, 942 views)
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post #4 of 210 (permalink) Old 6th August 2007, 11:57 PM
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Well done that man! Keep us posted on your road results.
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post #5 of 210 (permalink) Old 7th August 2007, 12:14 AM
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Sure looks like the easiest TRE I've seen,Im gunna give it a go int he next couple of days, see how it goes.
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post #6 of 210 (permalink) Old 7th August 2007, 02:25 PM Thread Starter
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I'm thinking about something that could help :
as this is the first TRE circuit on my bike, my butt dyno does'nt have any comparison base such as the classic 15kO paralel TRE.
So, even if my but dyno tells me this 6.8 kO series circuit is working, it could help if someone who is currently runing the classic TRE could try this simplest smart TRE and confirm us this is the same low & mid range benefit (+ stock idle map of course) ?
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post #7 of 210 (permalink) Old 7th August 2007, 10:36 PM
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I tried it today, good so far

I have not tried any of the other TRE mods, and I've only had my SV for a week, but throttle response right off idle is better. I went out for a short ride on a low-speed, twisty road where I get on & off the gas a lot. The transition from closed to open throttle is now more controllable for me. Thanks for the great tip, Ykar!
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post #8 of 210 (permalink) Old 9th August 2007, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the positive report, hoppefully i will soon delete the "?" from my post title !
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post #9 of 210 (permalink) Old 15th August 2007, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
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I just edited my first post but it seems i can't edit the title of it, may be a moderator can withdraw the "?" for me ? anyway this TRE efficiency is confirmed for me !
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post #10 of 210 (permalink) Old 16th August 2007, 04:07 AM
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Looks a lot simpler than the transistor controlled model, and no discrete silicon to burn out! Ill be trying this version soon, as my SATRE clone has been worrying me for some reason. Always a fan of less engineering :supsmiley
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post #11 of 210 (permalink) Old 17th August 2007, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ykar View Post
I'm thinking about something that could help :
as this is the first TRE circuit on my bike, my butt dyno does'nt have any comparison base such as the classic 15kO paralel TRE.
So, even if my but dyno tells me this 6.8 kO series circuit is working, it could help if someone who is currently runing the classic TRE could try this simplest smart TRE and confirm us this is the same low & mid range benefit (+ stock idle map of course) ?
I am completely dumb when it comes to electrical so I have a question.

You are talking above about the low and mid range benefit with a stock idle map.

I have the snorkle removed, M4 exhaust and a powercommander with a custom map. Will doing this mod have any effect on the custom map perfomance? I have already done the 15ko parallel TRE and don't even know if it is worth my trouble to do yours, again I am completely dumb when it comes to things like this.

Thanks

Jerry Holland
2006 SV1000ST "BlewByU"
Rincon, GA
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post #12 of 210 (permalink) Old 17th August 2007, 03:01 PM Thread Starter
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sorry, i should have wrote "(+ keep stock idle map of course)"
If you already have the classic TRE, the only benefit will be that your idle map won't be affected by the TRE anymore (no potential cold start problems etc...), same benefit as a smart TRE but much simpler.
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post #13 of 210 (permalink) Old 17th August 2007, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ykar View Post
sorry, i should have wrote "(+ keep stock idle map of course)"
If you already have the classic TRE, the only benefit will be that your idle map won't be affected by the TRE anymore (no potential cold start problems etc...), same benefit as a smart TRE but much simpler.
thanks, I will just keep what I have, as I don't have any cold start problems. :supsmiley

Jerry Holland
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post #14 of 210 (permalink) Old 21st August 2007, 03:31 AM
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Have a few hundred miles with this version, and so far so good. Nice simple, transparent mod. Good work Ykar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ykar View Post
sorry, i should have wrote "(+ keep stock idle map of course)"
If you already have the classic TRE, the only benefit will be that your idle map won't be affected by the TRE anymore (no potential cold start problems etc...), same benefit as a smart TRE but much simpler.
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post #15 of 210 (permalink) Old 26th August 2007, 06:09 PM
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Whats the "GPS" ?
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