Motorcyclist Review and Clutch Basket problems

[Padraic]

Hi all,

I've been trolling around on this site now for a little while :ph34r:, patiently waiting 'till the later part of June when certain situations will allow me to go and upgrade from an aging Honda Nighthawk 750 to a new SV1K. Anyway, I received my Motorcyclist magazine Friday in the mail, where lo and behold was a side-by-side review of the new '03 SV1Ks and SV650S. I was shocked :shock: to see that they rated the SV650S better than the SV1K, one quote caught my attention - "Many slow- and heavy-steering bikes are fun to ride, but the SV's front-tire feedback can be subpar, with information from the Michelin Pilot Sport somehow lost in that lazy geometry, the steering damper and body weight placed on the bars by an aggressive riding postion." Earlier in the article, they made a point to explain that the SV1Ks and SV650S share the same frame and riding postion, just different size tires. Does anyone have any experience with this? Does tire size make that much of a difference? I don't see how two bikes with the same frame and riding position (geometry) can have that much of a different steering response.

My next question/concern is the postings lately about the noisy clutch basket and Geoff_T's latest post about issues with his clutch basket and not being able to get the engine to rev above 6k. How many more here have had the same issue? Should I wait (please tell me "No") 'till the '04 model comes out and hope Suzuki fixes some things? Any responses are welcome!

Padraic

[gixxerjoe]

To tell you the truth its always a good idea to wait the 2nd or even the 3rd year out for a new model....work out the kinks :oops: . Usually suzuki will address the problems that plague most newbie bikes.

The steering could be related to the stock steering damper. I currently ride a 00 gixxer and the damper does make a noticable difference. The wider the tire the slower the steering as well, so this combined with the damper may add to sloppy handling, not to mention the weight difference.....

The bike comparison should be within classes, these two bikes are in different classes, so the performance is really noticable.

I'm buying the sv1k/n for sure cause of power and theres a few ways to lightin up handling ;)

[jimbo77]

Pedraic,

I don't necessarily agree with Motorcyclist mag calling the SV1K a " slow and heavy steering bike" but it is fun to ride. I find the bike to have a very nimble feel considering the "lazy geometry". The rake and trail are not the most aggressive dimensions, and combine that with the longer wheelbase (plus 6/10 of an inch) over the SV650, the additional weight, and what feels like a longer reach to the bars, and the bike will not "feel" as quick as its smaller sibling. I will agree with Motorcyclist on the point that the front end feedback isn't as sharp as I would like it to be, at times feeling somewhat vague and imprecise. I agree with gixxerjoe that many of these issues can be improved upon with fine tuning of the suspension. Most new bikes have room for improvement in that department. As far as the 650 being rated better than the 1K, that isn't really a big surprise. Most motorcyle journalists have a lot of track experience, and to them, corner speed it what it is all about. Being able to enter, apex, and exit a corner at higher speeds will get you around the track faster. The smaller bikes are typcially better at that.

I think the biggest problem is with the category the new SV1K is going to fall into and how it will be reviewed. It is not a "naked" bike, it is not a "standard" as with your Nighthawk, and it is not a true sportbike, as with the GSXR, YZF, CBR, ZXR's, which is the category it will most often be compared to due to its styling and riding position, and "spec's". The reviewer will make the difference. Just look at how it ranked in the new Cycle World Hooligan Bike roundup. SEVENTH PLACE !!! But listen to what they said about it, a "technical knockout". They said "It gets high marks from everyone for what it is, but what it is, is a different thing than the others here- ergonomically not far removed from the original TL1000S". Well I don't know about you, but most of the cycle mags put the curse on the original TL's with their reviews, even though they are great bikes.

Well, now that I've gotten off topic and long winded, somebody else kick in some thoughts.....

[nitrohuffer]

Good! tell everyone they suck! This way I can get one cheap, and it's "Naw yo, I heard it can't handle as good as my cbr" tag won't squidize the sv! :P

[SV1KScott]

On April 15 TLRMan Posted this on the NESR massage board.

Well,
My brother finally gave in, and handed me the key. I was restricted to 5,500 rpms because of break-in, but who needs more than that?

My first thing to do was to see how well it responds to counter steering... I got it popping back and forth with a miniumum amount of input. I even checked it at 60 mph, and it was just as effortless.
The bike just feels really light between the legs.

The gear box, for the most part, shifted smoothly, with a little reluctance to get into 6th on one occasion, but I figured that'll clear up once it's got some miles on it. (it only had 70 miles on it) The clutch engagement is predicable, and doesn't have a 2-stage feel, that of the TLR.

Next test was to see how well she pulled from 2,200 rpms in 6th gear to 5,000 rpms. With the the secondary throttle plates doing their job, the engine pulled smoothly from 32 mph, right up to 81 mph, without a hiccup. (this bike has some grunt!) Say goodbye to the 4,000 rpm stumbles.

Power delivery was smooth and transient, not like the "getting hit from behind with a Mack truck" type of response like My TLR, but I think because it pulls so smoothly, it's very deceiving. I could compare it, like the power delivery of the Hyabusa, SMOOTH!
I kind of feels like it's got CV carbs under the airbox instead of fuel injection, it's that smooth....Not "On and Off", like the TLR...

The brakes still need to be bedded in, but because of that big V-Twin, you really don't need to climb all over the brakes to slow down.

The suspension, (after a couple of clicks of compression damping in the rear, and adding one turn on the spring preload in the front )
allows a compliant but "stable" ride. I didn't really Hammer it into the corners, but diving into the entrance ramp to the highway was quick, and offered no surprises.

Seating arrangement is comfortable, with slight reach to the clip-ons...it's not a touring posture, but definately a sport one.

The exhaust offers a slight rumble to let everyone know it's a V-twin hung from the frame, but it would really sound sweet with a full Yosh system on it for sure.

All in all, I'm pretty impressed, good low end punch, smooth, no vibration which is typical for 90 degree V-Twins, and great handling.
It's a SV650 with better handling, and more balls!
Now we just have to wait till she's broken in, and really put the screws to it....I got a funny feeling, that this bike has got a lot of surprises in store for us down the road....

[Nico]

Well Padraic and others,
It sounds to me like that Motorcyclist Mag reviewer needs to learn how to ride. If you want your bike to handle quickly and with feedback in corners DON't LEAN ON THE FUCKING BARS anyone with decent riding skills will tell you that will kill the handling straight up. You must work with the bike not against it. and that's exactly what he was doing by the sound of it so I would ignore his comments. I and others have found the bike ridden correctly handles as it should with ease and very predictable even in the wet.

Cheers Nico. :niceone:

[fugaziiv]

if we all based all of our decisions on what the rags say, few of us would really have the bikes that we do, and manufaturererers would be restricted to building only what has been deemed "good", it would make for a pretty slim product line, wouldn't you think?
go ahead and buy what you like and want, its the only way you'll be truly happy anyways.

[fugaziiv]

one other thing, i have to agree with NICO, the SV1K really does respond well to body english, although i feel that the bars have a time and place too...

[Schneegz]

Somebody needs to explain this to me 'cause I just don't get it. What's the big deal with counter-steering? I never do it. NEVER! I always lean with my body and let the bike do it's thing. I don't claim to be a great rider, but am I doing something wrong here?

[SV1KScott]

There are some bikes out there and one that I owned that was a real Mother to handle. The only way to make the SOB do what you wanted was to tell it Forcibly.
With the high tech machines that they have out now minus some that have poor handling characteristics ( we won't get into brands and models) All you have to do it become one with the machine. A single track machine is a very fluid and dynamic thing. make it and extension of yourself. If you have to think about what the bike is doing and then make it do what you want Game over, your already at a loss, a inexperienced rider (who will learn ) or an Asshole Motorcycle reviewer that needs to learn how to ride before he types.
I own and ride a SV1K and if there was any thing wrong with it I would be screaming it from the mountain tops, It handles fine, brakes very well and is very forgiving.
But WTF do I know, only been ridding 25 yrs.

Nico is right on :niceone:

[Nico]

Thanks Guy's, although I hate to admit it 32 years of riding on and off and there has been some off's in there so some lessons learned the hard way. Oh and that doesn't include the the paddock bikes when I was a kid.
It's always good to hear positive affirmation and boosts your own confidence that what you are saying is not going to lead some other poor bastard down the wrong track.
Thanks again guy's.

Cheers Nico :D

[BJAM]

Handling - this bike is the best handling out of the case that I have ridden. A firm and sporty ride on standard settings will kick you out of the seat on the larger bumps our roads throw at us but in return things are stable, easy to turn, predictable and solid. I find myself picking the bike up during turns because it turns in to quick. Add some extra corner speed, more than ever before, and the bike glides around hitting the apex just where you want it to. For the cheaper package that this bike represents it delivers a ride that Ohlins best would be proud of. Confidence inspiring - yes. Makes you feel good - yes. Vague and slow to turn in - no. Get the speed right, lay the bike on it's side and the reward is a truly great cornering experience.

This is the first bike that I took off the edge of its tyres during running in - only a small strip left to scrub off on either side of the front wheel. Can't wait to do my first track day and see if the pegs will deck out (doubt it but it will be fun trying).

[oheinous1]

Brethren, I too have been riding for many years, and in all my days I have yet to own the latest and greatest bike that the press has deemed the next messiah of the motorcycle world. I ride with many other bikers, all of whom are pretty good riders. But the fastest riders are not the guys with the "fastest, most powerful, best handling" bikes. Its the guys who are skilled and confident with their own machine that always lead the pack.

Any experienced racer will tell you that just when you think you've got the "fastest, most powerful, best handling" bike on the track, (or on the street) and you think your going at speeds that no man has gone before, some dude on '92 katana 600 blows by you with a chick on the back. The weakest link in any bikes handling is always the rider!

Therefore, this truism has proven itself to me many times, The Best Bike There Is, Is The Bike You've Got.

[XS650]

I've only got 30 years riding experience, so I'm not sure I'm qualified to disagree with the Motorcyclist staff over their review. However, I can assure you that my Copper SV1K is by far the best handling, smoothest and best looking bike I've ridden. I did find it curious that the GSX1000R tested in the same issue was given points for its comfortable riding position, which is a mirror image of the SV. Go figure. :blink:

[Padraic]

Wow, I wasn't expecting the plethera of responses... Thank you all. Mainly I was just trying to do a little research before I jumped from a "Standard riding style" to a "Sport riding style". Before I do purchase I will make sure to get a test ride, which might be kinda difficult, the local dealers here won't offer them, and the nearest city is St. Louis (25 minutes away, no biggie). I haven't contacted any of the St. Louis dealers yet to see if they will.

I have read different reviews, Motorcyclist seemed to be the most negative. You just have to find your own groove with different bikes - I can outride a local rider on his Yamaha YZF-R6 with my Nighthawk, granted he hasn't been riding that long, which just confirms the fact that 95% of the time it's rider skill. Not saying I'm the most skilled, I have almost 12 years of dirt experience and a little over 1 year of street experience. Whatever I do, I'll be sure to let ya know.

Thank you all for your replies... and keep the sunny side up.

[jejenkins]

I just got back from STAR riding school. Been riding 25 years and learned more in two days than the 25yrs. Steering?....It's all in the body. Yes I countersteer when casually riding around, but as the pace increases you have to let of (almost completely) of the handlebars, and use the footpegs to steet the bike. Very exhausting because basically you are not sitting on the seat at all, and doing an athletic stance per say on the bike. At STAR one of the instructors led me through a 70mph turn and wanted me to take my hands COMPLETELY off the bars to prove the point of relaxed light hands on the bar. Otherwise you never get the feedback from the bike telling you anything. It is amazing to be at a hard lean angle and let go of the bars, please don't try this on the street, but some track day take an easy corner and try it.
The other neat thing was all these guys on "BIG,BAD" bikes, even racers going all out, then you have the instuctors passing them on the outside on SV650s!!! Jason Pridmore is amazing at instruction and riding. he did an demonstration run and I never knew how fast they really rode. He was on a stock GSXR750 and it was beyond words.
If any of you ever get a chance to attend STAR, it is well worth it. I'm going to attend another one in Sept. at TX. The website is www.starmotorcycle.com.
Countersteering is not used by racers, and when the riding picks up neither should we. I would guess that 95% of all riders out there will never ride the bikes they are on to there potential. On the street, none of us should either. THe SV1K will handle much more than anything we should ever do on the streets and with the right rider, demolish many on track days.
As my skills improve on the track I can't wait till I go flying by an Ducati 998R on the outside with a smile :mobile:
Jon

[rocket190]

IMHO

I switched from a '00 SV650 naked to the new SV1000s and I also don't understand what the reviewers were talking about. Steering feels just as light as the 650, but because of the extra weight, it does take a little bit more body english to get it leaned far over. Honestly, the steering damper is barely noticeable while riding. Try a '03 GSX-R for comparison, which will feel like you are pushing the tire through wet cement that damper is so firm. I don't want to brag, but i'm a very good rider, and i find the handling of this bike nearly perfect. As another reviewer noted, this is also the first new bike that i've been comfortable enough to lean the bike far enough that the tires are worn right to the edge. In comparision, withought as much weight on the front end, i thought my SV650 felt vague at the front end, especially at higher speeds. Finally, I will further emphasize the more active riding style. I've heard complaints that this bike tends to go wide in the corners compared to the 650--probably because they are entering the corners faster! Simply getting your ass off the seat and slightly weighting the inside peg (like on a dirtbike) will get this bike leaned over FAR.

[jimbo77]

Rocket,

I've noticed the same thing about the peg weighting the bike holding it's line. I commented myself in an earlier post that I too felt the front end to be a bit vague, but I also noticed this is more apparent when riding "lazily" or purely counter-steering. I do use the counter steer method to initiate the turn, but the peg weighting and body english take all that soft feeling right out of the steering. Most of us know from experience that many bikes have a much more proactive feel to the front end when we use less "muscle" to handle the ride... I just forget sometimes....

[TCinFl]

very interesting reading...I"ve only had my Sv Since Feb 05, I've had FZR's, Ninja's and CBr's and right out of the box I loved the handling of this bike. It needed tweaking, but once tweaked, what a sweet handling bike. a little slow to turn in, but I have to echo what some of the other posts say, use body english weigh your inside peg and this bike flat out gets it thru the twisties. Plus if you drop the forks in the triple clamps a bit that turn in gets better.