Renegade Developments

[Avianblue]

A few images for you to enjoy.......

[Avianblue]

Number 2

[Avianblue]

Number 3

[Avianblue]

Number 4

[Avianblue]

and finally.....

[magick]

whever they are ready, so am I :D (w00t)

[Avianblue]

Okay, so you didn't have to be Einstein to figure out what the mods might be that produced the added power we saw previously - the Renegade airkit!!

Not everything is quite finished yet - still need to clamp the cans on the high-level system properly for a start :o and complete testing.

This is just what we did this evening. We ran out of time in the end (I left the factory at 9.30pm!) so final adjustments are going to be made in the next couple of days.

I'm sure there's lots of questions - which I'm sure Jorge will answer!! :D

[mooner]

WOW, I like those high pipes! What brand of pipes & what kind of HP improvement?

[fugaziiv]

i like the pipes much.

[jimbo77]

YEAH, BABY!!! Now that's what I'm talking about....damn, I wonder if it's too late to cancel my order on the Yosh slip-ons.... How's the heat for the Pillion Seat ?

Edit; And , Oh Please, I volunteer to be a Beta Tester for the airbox mod :ryan:

[Avianblue]

The high-level system from Renegade is going to be a semi-full system - i.e. the headers will remain.

There is a small increase in power with the high-level system - 121 at the crank which is similar to having the Renegade slip-ons (compared to 119 for the stock bike).

However, what you get with the high-levels is fantastic looks and gorgeous sound! :D :D

The big increase in power is with having the airkit which I believe, according to Jorge's latest data, now brings us up to 129 hp at the crank.

I can't see any problem with pillions with the high-level - certainly not with carbon or titanium because the cans don't get very hot at all. They're quite well tucked in as well. One for Jorge to comment on I think! :lol:

[Powermaster]

Final tests have been completed for the time being, a big thanks to Avian, for letting us play with his bike.
Ours graphs posted on another thread show the differences between the STD cans and our slip ons, another with our slip ons and our Airkit. From our latest tests with our semi full twin high level system, the power increase was very little (I must say that Suzuki have once again have done a good job with the original system) once again it was the airkit that gave it the best power, we got about 128/29 at crank, or 117 wheel, that is an increase of 6 to 8 from mid to top.
We are very happy with the results in view that we got it equal the first time out, I am sure that with further development we can get a few more ponies as my aim is 135, but at this stage we will start building this system and improve as we go along, the airkit is also ready for production and a press release about our products can be found in our website as I am not in the habit of advertising on someone elses sites, I take this opportunitty to say thank you to the Webmaster for the introduction of our product in here. Appart from my profession, I am an SV owner too and aid a few riders who are racing the SVs, whenever I can I will help those with less knowlege of such machines.
Regards
Jorge

[Powermaster]

Here are some charts. The red line is a standard run, the blue our Semi full system and our Airkit, no others mods. Readings are at the wheel. Our Dyno operates with fans. Tests without them may not enhance the luck of air that the SV has and therefore power figures may differ, as I always say, i don't expect one to ride in still air :D

[Powermaster]

Here you have the graphs in standard mode, with our Bolt ons and the adding of the Airkit. Power is show at crank. Our dyno is set to read crank as it does the readings on engine braking not acceletation, wheel readings are then done by the computer calculating the wheel revolutions at full throtle. We trust our readings to be correct as our findings are equal to Suzuki's claims at crank. :rolleyes:

[TLRMan]

Looks like a winner to me....
I already know the intake is corked up, as well as relieving that, and getting a decent fuel curve happening, I could say it's a sure bet to see rear wheel HP in the 120's!
Keep it coming Jorge...

[BJAM]

This looks really trick and I bet it sounds excellent. The engine in my TLR was an absolute stonker with the lid of the airbox taken off and a full Yoshi system. It would go from 0 to absolute roadside blur in a blink of eye (well almost). It was the sheer tractability of the engine and mid to high-end stomp that impressed everytime.

Since owning the TLR I have had a Ducati 996 and ST4s. Both of these engines, when running!, had superb mid-range torque literally shoving you out of corners and kicking you in the back - very addictive :P

The SV1000s does lack this mid-range stomp but more than makes up for it as a complete, tractable package. If this system delivers the extra power and torque that the charts show then count me in as one of your growing queue of customers - PLEASE. How do I register my interest and send you the deposit? Thanks.

[BurnCycle]

What are the odds on this system being fitted to an old(er) TLS (exhaust only)?

[jimbo77]

So, Powermaster, chalk it up already to a job well done. Can you tell me, if the airbox mod is ready for production, when can I place my order for retail delivery? I believe I've been bitten by the induction bug....

[Morphias]

Absolutley sweet, but I think the cans look a bit too small for the size of the bike.

I still think I will be a definite buyer if I get an SV1000S. :D

[Avianblue]

The airkit is pretty much ready to go I think. Jorge will probably put out a press release soon on the Renegade website (www.renegade-products.com (http://www.renegade-products.com)) as well as pricing info, etc.

The cans you can see had to be fairly short to fit them on with the rear fender still attached. However I'm sure most people are going to get rid of it (I think mine might have gone by now - eh Jorge? :D ) so there's more room to position stuff.

Dave

[jimbo77]

Avianblue,

Having a conversation with TLRMan, we discussed if the ECU programming for European bikes is different compared to American bikes. The bikes are lean in the US for emissions reasons, and the curve posted by Jorge shows no drop or dips; just as smooth as stock, only with more power. Are the ECU's programmed a little richer than the US version, or is the new 32 bit processor able to recoginize the increased airflow and adjust the ratio? I really like the improvement in power with the airkit, I'm just afraid it will lean out the mixture too much over here on the other side of the pond....

Also, I'll bet those throttle bodies now honk louder than a Christmas Goose, just before dinner..... :ryan:... Have you heard it with the airkit mod?

[SVTwin]

What happened to the rear seat??? Was that custom made or does somebody out there make that?

[Avianblue]

Jim,

This story is getting more intriguing as time goes by! Unless someone has a better explanation for what's going on we'll have to wait a couple of days and see what Jorge says about the mixture with the airkit installed and why it appears as though the FI is coping with it.

TLRMan has mentioned on another thread about the O2 sensor being missing on US bikes. Is this true? I'd have thought that this would be an essential component in making sure your emissions regs were adhered to. Speaking of which, the European regulations are pretty draconian these days too!

And yes, the induction noise probably would be quite nice - if you could hear it above the noise of the race cans! :D

SVTwin - the rear seat has the Bagster seat cover on. Or atleast it did until this afternoon when the solo seat cowl went on in its place! :huh:

Dave

[TLRMan]

Dave I commented on the other post......I will look again to see if there is an O2 sensor on my brother's bike, but I'm pretty sure I didn't see one....Like I said you may be lucky, and not have to go the route of a PCIII.
The only concern is that with more mods, cams, increased compression ratios, etc, that the fuel injectors don't go to 100% duty cycle, and can't keep up with the demand....But I sure hope that Suzuki would build in a buffer...

[Valbec]

Hi everybody,
I've tried to do an exhaust gaz analysis. My dealer said that was complicated and they were not really ready. I said the gaz analyser was still in the box... he said yes!
I went to a Honda dealer advertising as speed shop. They said sure we can do gaz analysis. When I went, the guy bullshitted me saying that he couldn't introduce the probe in a regular cans.

Finally, because I wasn't sure about the power of my bike, I put it on the dyno (Dynojet 250). I got 103.4 bhp and 63.9 ft-lbs. The result is the same as the one obtained by:
- www.jhsracing.co.uk with 102.6 bhp and 65.4 ft-lbs
- Performance Bikes, june 03 with 99.1 bhp and 64.7 ft-lbs

I also remove the Suzuki silencer to look inside, there was no catalyst inside as shown in the manual shop. The catalyst must be used in Europe and may be in California?
The catalyst being an additionnal restriction. Does this mean that the bikes in Canada and U.S. are more free flowing and a little bit leaner?

If someone as access to exhaust gaz analyser please post the results. It would be interesting to clear that question.
Valbec

[Flange]

I read somewhere that the European models came with catalytic converters in the mufflers and an oxygen sensor in the exhaust, but that other market models had no cats and no O2 sensor.

The article claimed that there was no power difference.

Jeez, just had a decent look at the pipework under the bike, looking for a point where an O2 sensor could go & to see if my model had a gland for screwing one into. Couldn't see a gland, but that's one convoluted set of pipework !

Cheers
Flange

[Flange]

Hey guys, I've been following this thread with much interest and I'm very impressed with the pioneering work which Jorge and Avianblue are doing, and appreciative of the way that the info is being shared with us all.

I certainly don't want to question Jorge's credentials or abilities - he's obviously a heck of a lot smarter at this stuff than I will ever be. With the utmost respect I would like to suggest to anybody who does go to pod type filters; don't throw your airbox away straight off - tuck it in the corner of your garage for six months or so before consigning it to the dumpster.

Most modern Jappers which I've seen go from airbox to pods have had to trade off something somewhere. Sometimes they've gained an improvement in peak power, usually there's been flatspots develop, and often peculiar engine performance in some circumstances, e.g., crosswinds. I've seen some pretty frustrated owners, looking to source an airbox from somewhere.....

Cautiously
Flange

[SV1-guy35c]

Hey the exhaust looks great my preference is for a 2 into one system thou :( :(

[BigThumpa]

I've seen an exhaust gas trace of an otherwise standard bike with just freer-flowing cans fitted and no fueling corrections.

The line went off the scale at 5500rpm, and there was a big hole in the power at the same engine speed.

Cans plus open filters making that much power without more fuel is surprising, plus things like the induction air temperature sensor not being in an airbox must surely upset the running? Could it even be on 'choke' all the time? :blink:

[Nico]

Hi Guys,
For your info the O2 sensor is fitted to European and UK bikes only as published in the work shop manual in Australia. If you want to check your bike follow the right pipe down under the bike just behind the right hand rear edge of the chin fairing, if you have one that is where you will see it.


Cheers Nico.

PS the same bikes will have the Three way Catalytic converter as well.

[aalleoxn]

Now that is NICE! :niceone:

All you need now is to cut off the hidious fender. Where would you put the turning signals?

[jimbo77]

Avianblue,

There are TWO different emissions standards here in the US. One is called 49-state legal, and the other is California legal. Ever been to Los Angeles? You can practically "feel" the air you are breathing. Somedays the smog looks like cloud cover... I believe the California bikes come equipped with O2 sensors and the cats, but I don't have that on my bike, at least the O2 sensor part, not sure about the catalytic converter. If there is a cat, it has to bee in the cans, cause it's not in line with the convuluted header/exhaust pipes.

[TLRMan]

Ok! So we found out that the O2 sensors and Cat-cons are Euo spec only.
Not sure if our California model fits into that catagory.
As for now, we know we can clean up stuff down low with the TRE mod.
But it appears we will have to run a PCIII to correct A/F ratios once we start freeing up the intake side. This sucks...You guys across the pond got it made!
May not need the PCIII or yosh tuning alternatives at all, unless you start getting in to tuning parameters that need to be differing from the stock ECU mapping.

[Morphias]

BigThumpa,

Being FI, there is no 'choke' at all.

When I had the cans on my Raptor gutted and rebilt, I did not suffer any ill effects other than the engine running a bit too rich.

I removed the snorkels from the airbox and did a quick run on the dyno with some minor tweaking of the fuel map soon sorted that and I had 115.7HP at the wheel. B)

The Suzuki ECU are quite programmable for general use. PC and Yoshi boxes are only really required if you want to race the bike so you can push out the redline or tune a target RPM.

[Avianblue]

aalleoxn

The rear indicators came off this weekend. I've flush mounted them either side of the brake lights similar to jimbo77.

This is to give us a bit more room to work with the high-level system - specifically to enable us to put slightly bigger cans on. The prototype cans worked fine but my God they were loud!

The rest of the fender will come off as soon as I've figured out the best way to do it. I'm currently hoping the tailguard that Powerbronze do will fit the bill nicely (I'm not a great metal-working guru like you other boys so doing something myself is going to look pants :lol: ).

As regards the FI, I always thought that if a bike had an exhaust sensor then it should be able to maintain the same a/f mixture no matter what changes are made upstream. After all, if a Power Commander can do it then why not the stock ECU? Hopefuly the SVs which have the sensor built in can keep the mixture at the right level. Sure, if there's a dip somewhere then the PC comes into its own but so far the dyno results for my bike haven't been too bad... (fingers crossed) :rolleyes:

[dtrides. AKA: svsportrider]

:niceone: Hello from Northern California! The cali models do not have the oxy sensors or cats but are tunned differently from 49 state models. I will try to find out the differences and post. Did the TRE mod this weekend, you best pay attention now when you grab a handfull in 1st & 2nd! Allso, cheep mod for intake, remove aircleaner lid, use stock screws and some washers to resecure filter and be prepared for some honk! Only worry is I might be lean so I will replace it untill I can have it checked .

[tlsteve1]

What is the intake sound like with the air kit----is it too loud---or not able to notice with the loud exhaust?? :rolleyes:

[TLRMan]

Originally posted by tlsteve1@9th June 2003, 02:03 PM<br /><br /> What is the intake sound like with the air kit----is it too loud---or not able to notice with the loud exhaust?? :rolleyes:
You better wear earplugs....It's LOUD! :o

[Valbec]

Found this at www.banditmania.co.uk/sv1000.htm

"One of the biggest challenges for all manufacturers this year has been meeting the European exhaust emission laws due to come into force on April 1st 2003. These state that emission levels are just 60% of the current limit (and this will be cut even further in 2006). Suzuki have combine three different elements to meet these demands: Fuel injection allows a more precise and more efficient fuelling in whatever situation. An exhaust catalyser, although heavy and quite expensive, allows its platinum grille to turn pollutants such as carbon monoxide into less harmful gases, like CO². Lastly the PAIR system (pulsed secondary air injection). This pumps oxygen into the exhaust ports at specific timings to allow the exhaust burn to continue longer and more thoroughly."

Is it only the european who got the 'PAIR system' or everybody around the world?
Will this system complicate modifications of the intake or the exhaust?
Neither guys at jhsracing and Renegade mentionned it.

[Valbec]

Found that at www.motorcycle-usa.com/news.asp?news=1&ID=3755
"The ECU also looks after the injector and ignition timing. It receives data about engine rpm, throttle position and, in European models, the oxygen content of the exhaust. All European models are fitted with an exhaust catalyst and meet Euro 2 emission standards. To further reduce emissions, the SV has Suzuki Pulsed-secondary AIR injection (PAIR) system. This injects clean air from the airbox into the exhaust ports to ignite unburned hydrocarbons."

[TLRMan]

Originally posted by Valbec@9th June 2003, 08:34 PM<br /><br /> Found that at www.motorcycle-usa.com/news.asp?news=1&ID=3755
"The ECU also looks after the injector and ignition timing. It receives data about engine rpm, throttle position and, in European models, the oxygen content of the exhaust. All European models are fitted with an exhaust catalyst and meet Euro 2 emission standards. To further reduce emissions, the SV has Suzuki Pulsed-secondary AIR injection (PAIR) system. This injects clean air from the airbox into the exhaust ports to ignite unburned hydrocarbons."
Normally the thing to do was to put block off plates where the Pair tubes bolted onto the engine. Aftermarket pipes, mixed with a little fuel enrichening, makes Great FLAME shows, and back fires... :lol:
This is why we block them off...


Time for an Avitar change...

[Nico]

You will find the pulse air is fitted to all the bikes but it also will cause the backfire on over-run when you put your bolt on cans on. The same thing happened on my Bandit 1200 01 model, had to block the pulse air off. the pulse air on the SV is controled by the ECU and so can be disabled in a couple of different ways. I will have to look at the shop manual and report back.

Cheers Nico.

[Nico]

It appears that the PAIR system needs feedback to the ECU so the best way to dissable it is to use the old ball bearing in the pipe trick and leave the rest of the system alone and let it think it's working.
So best place is at the cylinder head just befor the read valve.
Fit the ball to the large black rubber hose going to top of each cylinder head, this feeds air into the exhaust port during deceleration to help with emissions by burning off any unburnt fuel and with the free flowing pipes fitted it gives an open chamber for backfires.
Stop the air, stop the backfires.

Cheers Nico.

[tlsteve1]

Originally posted by Nico@10th June 2003, 05:32 PM<br /><br />It appears that the PAIR system needs feedback to the ECU so the best way to dissable it is to use the old ball bearing in the pipe trick and leave the rest of the system alone and let it think it's working. So best place is at the cylinder head just befor the read valve. See image below for plumbing layout.

&nbsp; Cheers Nico.
Nico can you tell me how the crankcase ventilation system differs from the original tls-97 to the new SV1000---maybe your manual outlines this. thanks TL STEVE1 :D

[Nico]

Sorry TL Steve1, it's not my manual, I was able to get a couple of images of things I thought might be important but didn't get that.

Cheers Nico.

[Avianblue]

Well, having ridden the bike for a bit since I had the airkit fitted I've now realised what the induction noise sounds like!

Imagine if you will the sound of an A10 Warthog ground-attack jet letting rip with its 40mm gatling gun and you won't be far from it! :D

[TLRMan]

Originally posted by Avianblue@14th June 2003, 08:20 PM<br /><br /> Well, having ridden the bike for a bit since I had the airkit fitted I've now realised what the induction noise sounds like!

Imagine if you will the sound of an A10 Warthog ground-attack jet letting rip with its 40mm gatling gun and you won't be far from it! :D
What? You say something? Can't hear you over all this noise!
My EARS ARE BLEEDING! :o
:P

[TwinFreak]

It appears that the PAIR system needs feedback to the ECU so the best way to dissable it is to use the old ball bearing in the pipe trick and leave the rest of the system alone and let it think it's working.
So best place is at the cylinder head just befor the read valve.
Fit the ball to the large black rubber hose going to top of each cylinder head, this feeds air into the exhaust port during deceleration to help with emissions by burning off any unburnt fuel and with the free flowing pipes fitted it gives an open chamber for backfires.
Stop the air, stop the backfires.


Maybe stupid question :huh: , but I don't have expierence with the backfire issue. What i've you don't do the ball bearing (or some other trick) and you just leave it this way.

Does the engine stall on backfiring, does the backfiring do any damage to exhaust ports, exhausts themselves or any other parts ???

Cheers