Air filters - BMC vs. K&N vs. Pipercross [Archive]

View Full Version : Air filters - BMC vs. K&N vs. Pipercross

drmudd

16th February 2004, 03:02 AM

ADMIN NOTE=AndyW 18Jan2005: Several threads merged

Just traded out my K&N for a BMC; like BMC better. The induction sounds are wonderful, mpg are down(was able to richen things up a bit with the pc) and hp feels up. Thumbs up to the Italians.

Live For the Corner

16th February 2004, 05:11 PM

has anyone bought the BMC conicle filters for some reason or another. Like replacing the pipercross ones on the Renegade airkit?

TLRMan

16th February 2004, 05:42 PM

That's all I run is BMC...good filter.. :banana:

andysv1k

16th February 2004, 06:28 PM

Where do the BMC's come from?
Anyone in the UK sell em?

Andy.

Skidz

16th February 2004, 07:43 PM

Don't Forget the PiperCross as well......under £100 (including retaining clip) From JHS on the site discount page ;)

Sounds Awesome :)

brokenleg

16th February 2004, 07:53 PM

Always used K & N Filters.
had no trouble with them.
More air-flow then stock filters and last for ages.

gunluvS14

16th February 2004, 08:01 PM

j_mlo_SV1000S

16th February 2004, 08:38 PM

I was thinkin that too gunluv, I wonder if we need a certain amount of airbox lid to create abit of velocity. I think we need an expert to chime in here TLRMan???? You around??????

Jonathan

TLRMan

16th February 2004, 09:13 PM

Well common thought of an enclosed airbox is to supply a non disturbed airflow into the engine, but because the sv is corked up with the snorkle, (and has proven to give you a better kick if removed), It looks like we have an air scoup under the tank! The problem I can see if you run with the cover off is, if the airflow, goes across the filter, and creates a vacuum under way..This wouldn't be a good thing! So lift the tank up, but put a baffle in the back to direct airflow towards the filter...What do you think?

I like drmudd's set up...reminds me of the hood scoops of days gone by...

From experience, foam filters suck, K&N so so, BMC the best.... :bleh: < i like this smiley too!

drmudd

17th February 2004, 03:09 AM

wow, you sure did cut a big opening on the air lid.

I always wonder if we open up too big of a surface area, wouldn't it decrease the intake air velocity and hurt low end?

and man, you sure did prop up your tank quite a bit :) it doesn't rub your seat?
The rise is 12 mm, doesn't rub the seat at all but the seat is modified. Nothing can be changed on a modern bike without it affecting something(s) else on the bike; they are made with pretty close tolerances. The BMC and K&N have some interesting differences: although the filter material itself seems very similar in appearance, the BMC has fewer pleats(less surface area) and the plastic base is hard not soft. I think the BMC lets more air in. Richened low and mid range (6% & 4%)with the buttons on the pc and wow the throttle response is crisp, smooth and RFN. Another good mod is to use the shift shaft leaver from a tlr, it is shorter for quicker shifts(thanx TLRMan). I have it set up conventional-I can't get use to the gp set up. Any how I'll mess with the pc some more: push the buttons, play with the accelerator pump and tweek the map then go get it dynoed again before I put new tires in a few weeks.

rogfog

15th April 2004, 09:31 AM

Gents,

I want to remove the snorkel from the airbox but am concerned about water ingress. Which of the air filters is "oiled" as I am under the impression that water ingress is less likely with an oiled filter than with a standard paper-style one like the stock version.

I know the Pipercross version is but what about the BMC and K&Ns?

Ta

Rog

lesbrownjr59

15th April 2004, 10:10 AM

rogfog

15th April 2004, 10:14 AM

Rog......The K&N filter is oiled and can be cleaned and re-used.I don't know about the BMC as I have never used.I bought the K&N for it was about 1/2 price of BMC.Someone will tell of a BMC I am sure.Warming up over there yet??Ride safe.............Les

Les,

thanks for the info !

Yep getting warmer all the time - has been beautiful the last few days (to UK standards anyway) -ideal for the bike and where am I - at work !!

Had a great spin Tuesday evening though - country lanes, little or no traffic, didn't see any cops which is good as I was moving some !!

Take it easy

Roger

drmudd

15th April 2004, 11:34 PM

BMC like the K&N is oiled.

Bayouboy

15th April 2004, 11:50 PM

Same experiences here. I switched from K&N to BMC a couple months ago with modified airbox and noticed a little better performance.

rogfog

16th April 2004, 05:48 AM

Same experiences here. I switched from K&N to BMC a couple months ago with modified airbox and noticed a little better performance.

BMC it is then - will pick one up Wednesday !!! £40.00 from Southern Motorcyle Centre - Southampton.

Thanks for all your guidance !

TLRMan

16th April 2004, 12:33 PM

BMC it is then - will pick one up Wednesday !!! £40.00 from Southern Motorcyle Centre - Southampton.

Thanks for all your guidance !

You won't be dissapointed.... :Punk:

Bayouboy

16th April 2004, 08:40 PM

You won't be dissapointed.... :Punk:

except maybe with the price :D

TLRMan

17th April 2004, 12:05 AM

except maybe with the price :D
Well the way I see it, it's a cheap 2 horsepower to be had at least with the TLR. or you can spend almost 2 grand for a set of Marchesinis....did I mention I have those too? <_<

afbluesv1k

17th April 2004, 05:15 AM

I will adress the water question. Do you drive in moosoon season? There is no way that the bike is going to ingest enough water to have an effect. Have toy ever heard of water injection on alcohol cars? If its raining you wont know the difference if a water droplet runs through, #1 or #2 once in awhile. Look at the dynamcis of the air box, it has to suck over the rubber stacks to get in, or it has to drop right from the filter inside. Both scenrios unlikely, yank the snorkel. Prepared to go deaf if you cut the top off, but its worth HP. New one is only 25.00 from dealer anyways.

rogfog

17th April 2004, 07:10 AM

except maybe with the price :D

I was quite pleased with £40.00 !

Cheapest filter available vs K&N and PIpercross

Ebenhorst

17th April 2004, 07:31 AM

Dumb question. I don´t ride with my car at all when the summer comes. So I ride with my bike if it rained or sun shined.

What do you do with those air filters when it rains?

70X7

18th April 2004, 02:52 AM

ok guys....why did any of you spend money on a mod you could make yourself???? looking at the photos and reading our responses it seems that if you were to just remove the stock cover and secure the filter you would gain the desired result???? yes...i do see the significance of having a wire meshed, washable filter with more surface area and air flow for a leaner mixture and snappier response....ok....maybe i am missing something here

i am testing my modified version out tomorrow.... i checked out the article posted earlier with the JHS mods and all they did was essentially mod the cams...no???

i know the guys at k&n and i can tell you it is not brain surgery they are selling, and from the looks of the BMC it is not either.... although if I HAD TO BUY A REPLACEMENT....

I KNOW this is too serious

Bayouboy

18th April 2004, 03:02 AM

70X7

18th April 2004, 03:49 AM

Bayouboy

18th April 2004, 05:05 AM

ok....how is it that he BMC unit moves more air??? i will tell you though that this unit from the photos and the lifting of the tank seems to make more sense from the air flow perspective and if i were to machine some spacers one could achieve the same flow.....i would consider this unit for a replacement.....

The difference is due to the different construction of the filter element itself. All the filters work by essentially the same mechanism. There are a bunch of microscopic holes in the membrane that allow air to pass. But the different filters use different numbers of and different distributions of diameters and lengths of these holes (or more correctly channels) so they end up with different flow properties. The BMC offers less resistance to air flow through the filter element than the K&N which in turn offers less resistance than the stock filter. Removing other obstacles to air flow like opening up the airbox, removing the snorkel, raising the tank, etc. also help flow by making it easier for air to get to the filter membrane which it must do first before it can pass through into the engine.

rogfog

22nd April 2004, 08:32 AM

This is the BMC filter - fitted last night at the same time as I was finishing off fitting Norms' fender eliminator.

Airbox was also de-snorkelled at the same time (under full anaesthesia).

Have not left airbox lid off, but may just cut the extra windows as outlined in other threads on air box mods.

Whole job took about 5 minutes (if that) !!

Didn't get chance to test it out last night but will run it on the seat-of-the-pants Dyno tonight.

Need to get it onto the Dyno proper now to measure the performance now I have attempted to unplug both ends, but I still want to get the flattened sections of the downpipes unflattened but that will have to wait until more money is available.

Does look nice and red though !! :lol:

Can I just say that BMC Italy, their UK distributor and Southern Motorcycle Centre in Southampton are all top suppliers.
BMC Italy put me in touch with their distributor who only deal with the trade but put me in touch with SMC to get the filter ordered.

However the distributor actually delivered the wrong filter (for a TL1000S) to SMC to start with but put a special delivery together to have the correct filter delivered 24 hours later when they should have delivered tomorrow!!

Top service from all concerned !! :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

rogfog

23rd April 2004, 09:02 AM

Seat of Pants Dyno suggests better mid-range with the BMC fitted but the induction noise from having the snorkel removed is SUPERB !!! :niceone:

oomidamon

23rd April 2004, 11:23 AM

Seat of Pants Dyno suggests better mid-range with the BMC fitted but the induction noise from having the snorkel removed is SUPERB !!! :niceone:
Rog, this is scary - we were BOTH doing the same mods to our bikes at the same time..... As well as fitting my eliminator I was also desnorkeling! :blink:
Didn't realise how easy the snorkel job was, like you say 5 mins, tops. The sound is great, too :niceone:

rogfog

23rd April 2004, 11:49 AM

Rog, this is scary - we were BOTH doing the same mods to our bikes at the same time..... As well as fitting my eliminator I was also desnorkeling! :blink:
Didn't realise how easy the snorkel job was, like you say 5 mins, tops. The sound is great, too :niceone:

Great minds think alike - easy mods but maximum return !!!

All I need now is a Dyno test to make me either feel very good or destroy my beliefs !!!

:niceone: :niceone:

oomidamon

23rd April 2004, 11:56 AM

Great minds think alike - easy mods but maximum return !!!

All I need now is a Dyno test to make me either feel very good or destroy my beliefs !!!

:niceone: :niceone:

Or simple things please simple minds?! :rofl:

Good point re dyno, I think I'll stay in blissful ignorance.

BTW does the place you got your filter from have a web site?

rogfog

23rd April 2004, 12:05 PM

BTW does the place you got your filter from have a web site?

Not sure - you can ring Southern Motorcycles at 02380 630642 or contact BMC's distributor at :GHMOTOFAX@aol.com.

BMC in Italy are on: www.bmcairfilters.com

They will either be able to help or put you in touch with a local dealer who can supply to you.

oomidamon

23rd April 2004, 12:14 PM

Cheers mate, I'll give them a bell. :beer:

5th October 2004, 07:28 AM

Looking for a filter upgrade.......which is best and how much......where from?

:whistle:

Lizard

5th October 2004, 11:50 AM

Looking for a filter upgrade.......which is best and how much......where from?

:whistle:

http://www.sv1000.zyns.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3150&highlight=BMC

should answer some of your questions. I went with BMC because it was almost the same price as K&N so I thought why not.

I'd say almost anything would be better than the stock paper thing especially if you're pulling bits of the airbox. An oiled filter will keep any possible water ingress out.

BigThumpa

5th October 2004, 05:50 PM

Suspect the answers will reflect what others have bought. Doubt many will have tried more than one aftemarket filter.

I voted Pipercross. Totally happy with 4bhp boost. Got it from JHS but they now do BMC instead.

Timothy

5th October 2004, 05:52 PM

I voted Pipercross too for the same reasons as BT. :D

Robbo

5th October 2004, 05:54 PM

I'm on my second BMC... its good stuff! :D

Timothy

5th October 2004, 05:55 PM

I'm on my second BMC... its good stuff! :D

So...the question begs, if they are so good why did you have to get 2?

:D

Robbo

5th October 2004, 05:59 PM

So...the question begs, if they are so good why did you have to get 2?

:DCos JHS wouldn't sell me a retaining band without the "NEW" version filter as well....

You should know, you posted it to painterman for me... well your missed did :lol:

sv1k4animal

5th October 2004, 06:55 PM

I voted K&N and I haven't even got mine yet. However, had one on my first bike, and bought one for my old truck too. Happy with the results, and easy to maintain. Basically, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Nick

TLRMan

5th October 2004, 11:15 PM

Have done lots of tests on the dyno with stock, K&N, and BMC as well as other "foam" type filters....

For the Suzuki's K&N doesn't improve power, We had a Busa on the roller, and it LOST better than 6HP with the K&N compared to the stock filter.
The BMC added 3 HP over the stock filter....and added 2 HP to my TLR.

FYI Kawasaki has the best stock airfilter so leave it alone. if you want a servicable filter, get the BMC, the K&N LOST HP on the 600 we tested.
There was a foam aftermarket filter on this 600, and pulled 92 HP, with the air/fuel ratio going so rich after 8,000 it fell off the chart.
We pulled that out, and went with a K&N, it gained 3 HP to 95.
Pulled the K&N out and put the stock filter in, and ripped 98 HP.
Didn't have a BMC for this application, but i can probably tell you what would happen. BTW the Kawasaki banged out 101 HP without an airfilter.

Honda has their shit together with airfilters too. But swap out with a BMC, and the RC 51 we had, went from 121 HP to 125. (bypassed the soft rev limiter also).

In my opinion and after all these years of blowing engines up, foam airfilters work good when soaked in water, and with a little soap to clean out the honing oil in the cylinders after a bore job.

HBSURFER

5th October 2004, 11:35 PM

What about the Renegade airkit?? It requires removal of the stock airbox and the intake roar is rather loud, but it works great for me.

Smitty

5th October 2004, 11:49 PM

I have to agree with the Renegade kit. Thats what i have. The airfilter debate is just like the oil debate, which are both like politics. Everone loves what they use, and hates everthing else. I have read enough "oil" threads to last a lifetime :argh:

Smitty

5th October 2004, 11:50 PM

OR, I can add the story "My brother used the pipe cross in his bike and it blew up" or, the other side "My mom used the pipe cross and it added 100 Hp" Use what works for you. Oh, I have nothing against the pipecross, just used it as an example.

6th October 2004, 07:51 AM

What about the Renegade airkit?? It requires removal of the stock airbox and the intake roar is rather loud, but it works great for me.

Dont want the air induction roar of a non airbox set up......thanks anyway!

TLRman,
I dont know whether youve dyno'd the sv with the choice of filters on the poll? I dont know if al 3 arel the same size compared to stock. Im sure i saw a pic of a filter next to a std one showing a bigger filter surface area which would obviously flow more than std. any ideas? :confused:

Timothy

6th October 2004, 07:53 AM

Dont want the air induction roar of a non airbox set up......thanks anyway!

TLRman,
I dont know whether youve dyno'd the sv with the choice of filters on the poll? I dont know if al 3 arel the same size compared to stock. Im sure i saw a pic of a filter next to a std one showing a bigger filter surface area which would obviously flow more than std. any ideas? :confused:

So, you want a filter that you can use, without the ROAR and with keeping the airbox lid on right?

6th October 2004, 08:12 AM

Yep indeedy........either of 3 above just dont want to buy the wrong one!
I had a k+n on my VTR with a dynojet kit and cans it give out 108.75 bhp at the rear which is impressivewith 18000miles under its belt.This was all sorted by the previous owner so i couldnt compare it to stock.

The filter area on the filter base is puny std and i think the aftermarket ones completely cover the base plate with filter not plastic? make sense or am i too tired after just finishing nights?? :confused:

CAPTAIN

6th October 2004, 10:50 PM

K&N for me :D

b12j20d

12th December 2004, 02:54 PM

I've always used a K&N air filter but from reading some other threads I've been hearing a lot of people talk about BMC air filters. I was just wondering if anyone know the differences (which one performance better, the cost, etc...) Also, I've also heard some people say that K&N filters don't perform any better then the stock air fitler. Anyone have any opinions?

Tundra Tom

12th December 2004, 03:15 PM

The K&N's will give you more H.P., the BMC a bit more power, all proven with dyno runs (see dyno runs thread). The BMC cost over twice as much as the K&N. You will never buy another air filter after purchasing either one. I've owned several K&N's and none have failed.

andyw

18th January 2005, 06:38 PM

Lots of discussion on filters........just merged three threads all covering the same theme.

This one I started recently is also worth looking at with this thread:
Induction/airbox mods - summaries and feedback.... (http://www.sv1000.zyns.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10379)

BMC seems to be the one to go for judging from comments by the likes of TLRMan, Drmudd and Bayouboy to name a few but I'm having trouble breaking old habits having only used K&Ns in the past.

Both companies have a wealth of experience, K&N since 1969 and BMC since 1973.........I checked out their websites, to me at least I found the K&N site much more informative. This page is particularly good explaining how filters work, difference in performance between paper, foam and K&N type filter and loads more:
http://knfilters.com/facts.htm#MYTHS

Reading back through this and other threads, there seems to be good evidence that the BMC has better airflow than the K&N. I find that odd, even accepting that the filter material density may be different (not visibly, appears to be the same filter medium for both filters) as the K&N filter opening area (is 16% bigger than the BMC):
Filter opening area:
BMC 14.2cm x 18.0cm - 255 sq cm
K&N 15.7cm x 19.2cm - 301 sq cm

That said the K&N has more densly packed pleats in the filter (28 pleats as against the BMC's 19) and I have no idea how this might affect airflow......possibly restricting airflow? Should make for better particle filtering capability though?

Another difference I notice is that the K&N filter is deeper both as a result of a 'stepped' design that raises it up a few mil from the level of the airbox mounting surface and as the pleats are deeper (21mm vs 17mm)

One last difference is that the K&N filter material is mounted in a flexible rubber support whereas the BMC is a rigid plastic. It's this last point that set me wondering K&N or BMC? when James at JHS said that the K&N would flex with airflow (having seated it in the airbox though, oh by the way I currently have a K&N and a BMC here :D, it takes a fair bit of pressure to make it 'flex').

www.bmcfilters.com

http://knfilters.com

Not that it makes any difference but BMC is Italian made and K&N American made.

So, there's a queue for TLRMan and other more technically able types to expand on earlier comments........thanks.

PS: As soon as I get chance I will of course try both and see if my seat of the pants dyno can tell the difference!

PPS: Anyone want to buy a K&N or BMC filter....one or the other will be for sale soon :D

oomidamon

20th January 2005, 12:08 PM

PPS: Anyone want to buy a K&N or BMC filter....one or the other will be for sale soon :D
Any takers yet? I'll have it if not! :niceone: I don't mind having an 'inferior' filter!! :rofl:

andyw

20th January 2005, 12:59 PM

Knaapie has first dibs but I'm not sure he'll bother. I'll let you know.

20th January 2005, 11:27 PM

ANDY,
I wouldnt mind dibs dabs or dobs as I havent got round to buying a filter yet....

Anyone know what they cost and where from? (UK).

Johnny BoomBoom

2nd July 2007, 07:07 AM

Don't know about best....but as I was installing my Power Commander last night, I decided to stick in te K&N filter I acquired off Ebay a while ago......and de snorkel the airbox at the same time!!

Haven't had a chance to try them in anger yet.....it was pissing down last night. Still got to work out about the disconnection of the Lambda Sensor....although for some reason....the FI light isn;t flashing and I ahven;t disconnected the relevant Pin from the ECU.....bike starts and seems to run fine though??:confused:

zx92027xz

10th September 2007, 08:04 PM

i hope someone reads this... but i cut open my airbox with a stock filter a little more than i like... and i would like to fit a BMC or pipercross filter... because ive heard that they both run well without the box... which is ideal.

i saw TLRMan wrote that foam sucks... so piperx might be out of the questions... it does look a little strange.

but i read in a different forum that you can run with lid off with BMC also..

is this realistic without checking/cleaning your filter everyday? id also like to raise the tank a little bit... so please keep this in mind.

Dr freedom

16th September 2007, 11:01 PM

I have 8mm spacers as tank raisers & I got less hp on the dyno with my airbox cut open using a Pipercross filter. The air became turbulant within the box, thus not allowing the best air flow..
The stock filter with an uncut lid achieved 4-5 hp more than the cut lid/ Pipercross filter.
I will be back on the dyno in a couple of weeks & im going to try a K&N filter with both the cut open box & the the uncut one.

Imo, a sponge style filter suits some setups, although not all.