Lots of lean - but no knee-down action!

[Avianblue]

Brands Hatch a few weeks ago.....

Must do better methinks....but then I think there's enough lean angle to be getting on with!!! :blink:

[Timothy]

Nice shot!

Please, don't make me bring my Brands Hatch shots to the top again!

:D

[tjm73]

Awesome red X!! :pokey:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Please repost you pic. :D

[IndySV1K]

Looks like if you would have slid off the seat a little your knee would have been down. Either way, you were over pretty far; well done. :beer: :niceone:

[Timothy]

Awesome red X!! :pokey:
.
.
Please repost you pic. :D

Works fine here!

[Lizard]

Brands Hatch a few weeks ago.....

Must do better methinks....but then I think there's enough lean angle to be getting on with!!! :blink:

That's far enough over but you're not hanging off (or sticking your knee out) so it's never going to touch down before the footpegs.

Relax.

Move your body off centre and you'll find that you can take the corner faster with less lean.

[Timothy]

And I can't say this enough...

Bend your bloody arms and LOOK where you WANT to go!

Good shot tho, that the only one?

[dadmun]

Yeah - what they said... and, you're a little crossed up. See you have the bike over pretty far, but your body position is a little off. Try hanging off more. This allows the bike to stay more upright and get a better contact patch. In a right hander like that, your head should be almost behind where your right mirror would be. Then you'll get your knee down...

[tjm73]

Hey now it's there!! Nice lean. Looks like you are sitting bolt upright and stiff as a board. :D

[Avianblue]

Thanks guys!

I admit I did get to hang off a lot more than here (eventually) but must have still been a couple of inches away! Looks like I need to go for one and a half cheeks off rather than just one which is as far as I got! :msn-wink:

Cadwell Park next week is a possibility, so you never know!!

Dave

[dadmun]

Just to reiterate - you should be leaning more than your bike. Your bike is leaned over right, but you are leaning upright left - aka crossed up. I'm not saying you're a jerk or anything. :) Just try to move your head like I mentioned. Putting your head behind the mirror location and properly countersteering (bending arms, looking through turn, etc.) will set you up nicely.

That being said - good job getting some track time in! It's not so much about how far you can get the bike over, it's about how fast you can get through the corners - safely.

:Punk: :Punk:

[Timothy]

Bending your arms will get you lower, getting your head where the mirror should be will help too! This also stops you 'crossing'.

I've NEVER had my knee down and my old Brands pics (and yours) prove that there is no need to either. If that's your thing then all the above advise will help, other than that just have fun (still bend those bloody arms tho mate, if your elbows touch you knees then your there!). So, go and practice and have fun!

[Robbo]

I've given up trying for knee down now, I just focus on getting the bike and myself set up right for the corner, body positioning and getting the turn as nice and smooth as possible. I am sure its going to come soon, as I am getting faster around bends all the time, I am now rounding things at 20mph plus what I was originally doing them.

I agree about the countersteering, don't be afraid to push it like a mofo to get that sucker over!

[Tracypillion]

If anyone was serious about learning to get your knee down, there was a letter in last months Ride magazine about it. There's a riding school for it. www.rapidskills.co.uk

[Timothy]

I've given up trying for knee down now, I just focus on getting the bike and myself set up right for the corner, body positioning and getting the turn as nice and smooth as possible. I am sure its going to come soon, as I am getting faster around bends all the time, I am now rounding things at 20mph plus what I was originally doing them.

I agree about the countersteering, don't be afraid to push it like a mofo to get that sucker over!

As always 100% mate, smooth does it and as for countersteering.....well, the guys that did Lllandow will know, there is NO WAY you can do the bus stop without doing it, by the end of the day I was touching my toe sliders everytime and that was the ONLY place I did it!

Shall we agree that you don't HAVE to get your knee down to go fast (smooth)?

[Robbo]

Shall we agree that you don't HAVE to get your knee down to go fast (smooth)?

Agreed..... :hug:

Lets go in for the real sour grapes and also add that they are just show offs!! :D

[CraigBellamy]

Shall we agree that you don't HAVE to get your knee down to go fast (smooth)?

Agree- At the end of the day if you have your lean angles right, why would touching part of your body on the tarmac make you go faster?

[IndySV1K]

You definetly don't need to get a knee down to go fast, at least according to Keith Code. Code's book "A Twist of the Wrist" has a whole chapter devoted to "hanging off". According to the old pro, hanging off is a tool that should only be used "as needed". There were alot of successful professional roadracers that never had to get a knee down (hopefully someone can help with some names) to win. In the end it doesn't matter if it's pretty as long as its fast, fun, and somewhat safe. :Punk:

[Maui]

Yeah, but that is because in the old days there were no knee pucks. You put the knee down back then, the leather would grab the pavement and bring you down. I think someone like Schantz started it by putting duct tape on his knees or something like that...

Now that is not to say thay you have to put the Knee down, but for some it is part of hanging out, not scraping pegs and leveraging for more speed

[Timothy]

I think someone like Schantz started it by putting duct tape on his knees or something like that...



Barry Sheene, lets get it right! :D

[dougie111]

Big thumbs up to all you dudes who emphasie smooth riding and prpoer corner speed as the goal of corning rather than kneeing down just for the sake of it. i've seen plenty of pics where a guy has his kne down but not all that much lean angle, just because he hung off the seat alot. on the other hand i've also seen plenty of pics where dudes had tons of lean angle, knee out while almost touching but not quite scraping knees. so don't get overly concerned with this knee down stuff cause its only a tool to be used under certain circumstances but it's defiently not the be all end all of corning :D

[Metastable]

Going back to the original topic.

Avianblue - DUDE please don't take this the wrong way, what dadmun meant when he said "crossed up" is that you are PUSHING the bike away from you. You need SERIOUS practice with your cornering.

The lean angle you have is substantial, but for the speed you are going (regardless of what that speed is), you would have required MUCH LESS lean angle if your body cornering technique was correct.

You see, even someone that doesn't hang off, they can have correct "NOT HANGING OFF TECHNIQUE". You have INCORRECT "NOT HANGING OFF TECHNIQUE" . There is no way to sugar coat this.... you need to change your riding style ASAP!!!!!!!!! I don't want to hear about you getting hurt.

YOu are robbing yourself of necessary cornering grip.

[ewok1]

lean angle is not important. i will say it again if i need too. what is important is how fast your going around the corner. the less lean angle the better. that is why you hang off the bike. the guy who posted who said "don't take this the wrong way but.. you need help" said exactly the same thing i said to 2 guys who crashed big bore bikes right in front of me on the track last saturday.
in their defense they weren't racers. you don't see anyone with an expert license making that mistake. i predicted both the crashes i saw saturday. i followed them for 3 turns as a control rider trying to get ahead of them because they needed to see what they were doing. i was on a 60 hp 750 duc and their lines were so horrible i feared they take me out. the the unifying factor was precisely what i see in your picture. big lean angles with the knee stuck out and the upper body straining to get back over the bike. that is a recipe for a low side. pure and simple.
get your body off. lead with your head and shoulders. all that weight on top of the bike with those lean angles doesn't work.
ever wonder how you can motor by people on you big bore bike on the straight only to get passed 2 or 3 turns later by somebody on a stock sv 650? that's how.
you don't want to put your knee on the pavement, good for you. but if you want to go faster safer, get your butt and the rest of your body off the bike.
eventually you will be surprised by the scrape of your knee without trying.
it is a requires a slight leap of faith. so learn how to get off and get your knee out. anybody who tells you anything different is making the same mistake you are. including all the guys here who can't do it. yeah some people go slower trying to get their knee down. but eventually they will speed up. people who don't, won't.
learn this technique quick or you will go down.
smoothness is great. lines are critical. knowing how your bike works is also essential.
like the other guy said, don't take my telling you that you're doing it wrong, the wrong way. it's just the truth. that's why they have different classes on track days.
nothing is more dangerous than a street rider who gets lucky and gets one fast lap in and "graduates" himself to the intermediate or god forbid, the fast class, then blasts down the straight on his gsxr1000 and parks it in the corners with no idea what he is doing.
sorry for the rant. it's easy to learn. get some instruction. until then, slow down.

[Maui]

Barry Sheene, lets get it right! :D
Thanks for the correction. I knew it started with an "S" at least. Think I heard the reference in "Faster"

[DIVESLOB]

Barry Sheene, lets get it right! :D
My Dad used to race with Sheene and Smart, in there younger day's. We even went to dinner with Barry. And I beleive my farther built some of either his or Paul's house!

Shame none of the riding talent rubbed off on me! :D

[Tundra Tom]

When I scrolled back the the photo I was shocked at far you're leaned over without hanging off. When you do get the tecnique down you'll find that dragging your knee puck is almost comforting. Like having a gage to determine how far over you are.
Looking into the next corner does alot for improving your lines and makes you faster. The preception of speed is greater watching the pavement 10 ft. in front of your tire. Helps to see any trouble ahead and read corner flags earlier too.
You may want to pull your headlight fuses next time too, keeps the glue from melting on the lenses. :crazy:
I can only think of one thing that's more fun than track day.......... :buggerd:

[Timothy]

My Dad used to race with Sheene and Smart, in there younger day's. We even went to dinner with Barry. And I beleive my farther built some of either his or Paul's house!

Shame none of the riding talent rubbed off on me! :DWOW!

Now, how cool is that!?

[DIVESLOB]

It's cool, but as a child you just dont know it!

[Maui]

My Dad used to race with Sheene and Smart, in there younger day's. We even went to dinner with Barry. And I beleive my farther built some of either his or Paul's house!

Shame none of the riding talent rubbed off on me! :D

That is definitely very cool. Sounds like you had a lot of riding "environment" around you as a kid. Very cool nonetheless.

[Tundra Tom]

There's a great segment in the movie "Faster" where Kenny Roberts and Barry are doing the "He said - She said". Very funny. :first: :second: