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Simplest Smart TRE ever.

107K views 222 replies 102 participants last post by  Missing Link 
#1 · (Edited)
To do the simplest smart TRE you only have to put a 6.8kOms resistor anywhere on the pink wire that goes from the GPS to the ECU, as the example shown on the fisrt attached picture.

advantages :
- full benefits of the "classic" TRE and "smart" TRE
- no impact on the neutral map (no cold start problems)
- no intrusion on any other circuit (such as neutral light circuit)
- cheap and easy

downside :
- i don't see any...

if you want to know "how and why", please read my original post just below.
Below the original post, you may also read the "additional informations" which were gathered during the thread life (thanks to all participants)



ORIGINAL POST :

First of all, moderators may merge my post into the TRE thread if it is more appropriate. I thought this post deserved to be highlighted but i may be wrong.
And i'm sorry if this circuit has already been proposed on the board or somewhere else on the web but i definitly could'nt find it.

It is still on road testing stage but i think i found the simplest way to make a Smart TRE :

simply connecting a 6.8 KO resistor in series anywhere on the GPS pink wire (as shown on the first attached diagram).

Here is the way i found this :
The GPS-ECU stock circuit is a voltage divisor circuit (not sure of the english name of it...) as shown on this page which everyone probably knows already : http://wotid.com/tls/content/view/17/47/

According to this, there is a small formula that allows to calculate the voltage drop depending on initial voltage (usualy arround 5VDC), internal ECU resistor (1KO) and external resistor (GPS resistors) :
Ve = Vi * (R2 / (R1 + R2))
where Ve is the voltage detected by the ECU (= pink wire voltage)
Vi is the initial voltage (= to pink wire voltage when bike is in neutral)
R1 is the internal 1KO resistor
R2 is the variable GPS resistor

On the attached sheet you can see the calculed voltages with Vi=5.26 VDC (which was mesured on my bike) for the stock circuit and also with the 6.8 kO resistor added : with the 6.8 kO res, all voltages are higher than the 5th gear stock voltage which means the ECU would always "think" it is at least in 5th gear even when the bike is in lower gears.

I've also tested most of these voltages with digital multimeter on my bike and they appeared to be almost exaclty the same as the calculated ones.

My only concern was the 6xt gear : what would "think" the ECU with 21.8 kO res and 5.03 VDC ? to get the answer, i connected a 21.8 kO res (15+6.8) in paralel between the pink and the black wire and did the idle clutch in/out test. The result was i clearly felt the revs difference between clutch in and clutch out, exactly as for the basic TRE with 15 kO resistor (which i also tested to make sure the ECU behavior was the same). That result means the ECU is still "thinking" it is in 6xt gear even with 21.8 kO res.



ADDITIONAL INFORMATIONS :


>>>> The resistor i used is a 6.8 kO, 1/4 W, 5%.
I used it because it's a standard resistor value, cheap and very easy to find here.
As mentioned by Trojan, you may find a pack of 100 for 1 USD on Ebay :
http://cgi.ebay.com/Carbon-Film-Res...VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

>>>> But if it's not a standard resistor value for you local dealer, you may use a resistor with different wattage characteristics or different %. These characteristics should not have any impact on the setup.

>>>> The thing to take care of is the Ohm value. But, as truly mentioned by Prophet, there is a range of value that works for this TRE setup : you may use a resistor value between 6.2 kO and 6.8kO. This is a conservative range in which you will be 100% sure the setup will work.
As mentioned by several members, you may also combine different resistors to get the correct value within the range (such as two 3.3 kO resistors to get 6.6 kO for example).

>>>> Below the 6.2 kO value, the risk is that the TRE won't be efficent on fisrt gear (and maybe on second gear also).
>>>> Above 6.8 kO, here is my answer to Youngleadfoot who asked about using a higher value :

would there be aproblem using a higher rated resistor? Kcar said that he had none even though in sixth gear he makes more than the necesary resistance. if there is no downside you could use any resistor over 6.8kohms.
Yes, there may be a problem using a higher resistance. At a certain resistance threshold the ECU could "think" you're in neutral instead of sixt gear. And the neutral map is clearly not the one to ride with.
That's why i did a practical test in sixt gear with clutch in and out to make sure it doesn't switch to neutral map.
 

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#6 ·
I'm thinking about something that could help :
as this is the first TRE circuit on my bike, my butt dyno does'nt have any comparison base such as the classic 15kO paralel TRE.
So, even if my but dyno tells me this 6.8 kO series circuit is working, it could help if someone who is currently runing the classic TRE could try this simplest smart TRE and confirm us this is the same low & mid range benefit (+ stock idle map of course) ?
 
#11 ·
I am completely dumb when it comes to electrical so I have a question.

You are talking above about the low and mid range benefit with a stock idle map.

I have the snorkle removed, M4 exhaust and a powercommander with a custom map. Will doing this mod have any effect on the custom map perfomance? I have already done the 15ko parallel TRE and don't even know if it is worth my trouble to do yours, again I am completely dumb when it comes to things like this.

Thanks
 
#7 ·
I tried it today, good so far

I have not tried any of the other TRE mods, and I've only had my SV for a week, but throttle response right off idle is better. I went out for a short ride on a low-speed, twisty road where I get on & off the gas a lot. The transition from closed to open throttle is now more controllable for me. Thanks for the great tip, Ykar!
 
#12 ·
sorry, i should have wrote "(+ keep stock idle map of course)"
If you already have the classic TRE, the only benefit will be that your idle map won't be affected by the TRE anymore (no potential cold start problems etc...), same benefit as a smart TRE but much simpler.
 
#16 ·
Gear Position Sensor - tells the ECU what gear the bike is in, so it can select the correct ignition/fuel map
 
#20 ·
down by the front sprocket
 
#18 ·
I made this to my bike, and I have to say that I love it. She runs better on low rpm s and it smoothen response all true the rpm s.

Roads seems to be a bit slipperier now. :D
 
#19 ·
I tried to do this mod using a 15kOhm resistor. I didn't really feel any difference. I checked the resistor and it's giving the correct readings. Maybe it is necessary to use the 6.8k resistor? I dunno, but i'm thinking of doing the old "dumb" tre to verify any change.
 
#21 ·
Gee, just when I finally figured how I could rig three 10k's together to make 15k (couldn't find a 15k anywhere in Altoona, I don't call it Toontown for nothing) and buy a switch. Now I have to go shopping all over again. At least I hadn't drilled a hole in my dash yet. Cos if that switch wasn't in front of my nose, I would've forgotten to turn it off, then I would've forgotten to turn it on. You get the picture, memory's the first thing to go. What was I talking about? Anyway, thanks Ykar, if Radioshack has 6.8k's (who knows?) I'll be in like Flint by this evening!
 
#24 ·
My radioshack only had 3.3k's also, but they had 100 ohm's so if you string 2 3.3k's and 2 100's together that gives you 6.8k. it works great, too!! When your in traffic, and you're not really on the throttle, shifting was always jerky. No more!! :supsmiley:supsmiley:supsmiley
 
#23 ·
Went to Radioshack today. Had to string 4 resistors together to come up with 6.8k, but it's not like they take up much room or anything so it's all good. I can practically let the clutch out and ride away at idle, now, so I know it works. :D If it doesn't snow, we'll do the full road test tomorrow.:yes:
 
#25 ·
I'd just like to say that I did this mod, really easy too. The bike rides completely normal except it feels like it has about 20 extra ft-lbs at part throttle, and shifts are alot smoother. The first time you pull out on the road it will surprise you how little throttle you'll need to just piddle around. I pulled out of my complex at a medium pace, and had pull the clutch in because I was not expecting that much more oomph.

And you can get it going from a stop just using the clutch, just have to feather it a bit.
 
#27 ·
If you raise the tank and look way down in there, right in front of the battery pretty much, you'll see a white connector with the three bright colored wires, you can't miss it. It is a pain to get to at first, but once you manage to undo the connection, one end swings out and gives you plenty or room to play with.
 
#31 ·
Yes, there may be a problem using a higher resistance. At a certain resistance threshold the ECU could "think" you're in neutral instead of sixt gear. And the neutral map is clearly not the one to ride with.
That's why i did a practical test in sixt gear with clutch in and out to make sure it doesn't switch to neutral map.

This might be a stupid question but what wattage should the resistor be?? I am surprised such a small thing can make such a big difference. Can't wait to try it out. :banana:
1/4 W works perfectly
 
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