The 'knock'....the final thread!

[andmoon]

I was waiting to get some miles on my bike...now I have just under 2500 miles and I think I am developing the knock but I have to wait until it gets warmer because my presumed knock only happens in warm weather.

[Phat PTA]

Originally Posted by andyw

Some 2004 owners state they have the 'knock' which is quite possible as they may have been built with 2003 production engines.

The pro's for the bike far outway the cons and the odds are greatly in your favour in any case i.e. the percentage of troubled bikes is small. If you get a 'knocker' there is a fix under Warranty but Dealers in the States don't seem to be the best informed at this time! (but we're working on that!)

Get that test ride and if the SV is the one for you......buy it....as you say the deals are great so there's no competition really for so much fun so cheap!!!!

Do the new 2005 models (great choice of colors this year/Black is sweet!!!) incorporate the fix of the "knock"? Not that much difference in price between the 2003 and the newer 2005. The difference I pay for the 2005 might outway not having to loose my ride for a month or so to get the knock fixed if it needs it.

I really enjoy riding my wife's SV650N, it's awesome in the twisties and a bunch of fun. The larger version can only be twice the fun. Winter is here in New England, time to beat up the dealers for the best deal!!!

[Chris Shelly]

The knock was fixed on the 04 models. So the 05 should be fixed as well.

[Frisco]

Originally Posted by Phat PTA

Do the new 2005 models (great choice of colors this year/Black is sweet!!!) incorporate the fix of the "knock"? Not that much difference in price between the 2003 and the newer 2005. The difference I pay for the 2005 might outway not having to loose my ride for a month or so to get the knock fixed if it needs it.

I really enjoy riding my wife's SV650N, it's awesome in the twisties and a bunch of fun. The larger version can only be twice the fun. Winter is here in New England, time to beat up the dealers for the best deal!!!

Just buy the bike and ride! It seems every bike has it's little problems - it was the regulator/rectifier on my VFR, but it didn't keep me from racking up 35K trouble-free miles. Reading post after post on this probably makes it seem like a bigger deal than it really is.

[andyw]

The 2005 models will have a revised Crank amongst other mods

[Phat PTA]

Originally Posted by Frisco

Just buy the bike and ride! It seems every bike has it's little problems - it was the regulator/rectifier on my VFR, but it didn't keep me from racking up 35K trouble-free miles. Reading post after post on this probably makes it seem like a bigger deal than it really is.

I hear what your saying. My '91 CBR has 38K and is still going strong. I'm looking to pick up the monster power of the big v-twin and and have a bit more fun minus about 125 lbs of extra bike weight.

Thanks for the info. I'm definately buying the bike, just didn't want to buy any worries regarding the bearing issues.

[CopperTop]

Added mine to the survey finally. Figured I'd add something constructive to the site. Should have called myself the procrastinator instead of coppertop. No knock here (although I like knockers ). Help Andy out and complete his survey.

Phat PTA: I wouldn't worry about the knock. If you have it you can get it fixed and some who have just let it go and didn't bother getting it fixed. Not sure of the exact mileage or which thread it was in but I believe someone here has over 13,000 miles with the knock and no problems. Add on not hearing of a single engine failure and I'd have to say the chances of getting a bike that is going to crap out on you are slim. If you can get an 03 for a song and a dance now leaving you lost of $$$$$ for ad ons!! This bike is the best thing I ever paid for (I'd say it was the 2 kids but insurance paid for them) you'll love it. Just make sure you get copper.

[Stevezuki]

Originally Posted by andyw

.........don't be coy........tells us more!

It was when Devon was one of the areas where they trialled be able to get your gas from an alternative to British Gas. I was paying Eastern Gas but still getting bills, notices of disconnection etc from BG. Turns out they had transferred the wrong address. No one would sort it out and one night Watchdog was on the TV so the wife called them. Next thing we knew we had a film crew in the house! But the problem did get solved, instantly!

Steve

[andyw]

I've been in touch with Simon Brown at Ride magazine for some time....here's a copy of my latest email to him
(...if others were to email him we might get some action ... simon.brown@NOSPAMemap.com ...remove 'NOSPAM'!)

Simon, shame you were only able to make such a brief mention of the subject of the 'knock' in your update in this months Ride. I was hoping at least for a mention of the online survey at www.sv1000.inuk.com as at the moment it's only reaching the attention of a relatively small percentage of owners i.e. via the forum.

As for Suzukis' response that's almost laughable......deny the main bearing issue despite there being irrefutable evidence (not least of which is the fact that Suzuki have designed replacement bearings that they are installing under warranty!) and introduce the idea of another fault. Can you add a bit more detail to what they said for me?...why is there 'backlash' and what is the fix?
I've attached a couple of text documents that you will find interesting:
bearings.txt - feedback from the first engineer that has inspected the used bearings
knock.txt - an 'unofficial' take from a Suzuki Dealer

That 'report' on the used bearings is worrying as it not only confirms my understanding that the 'knock' is caused by incorrect bearing clearances but also introduces the possibility that sub-standard bearing material may be a factor - if that's true of all the original bearings then a shorter than expected life expectancy, even if clearances/tolerances are right (i.e. no ‘knock’), can be expected.............no wonder Suzuki are keeping quiet! Some time soon I should have a second opinion on the bearins but an 'official' report would be of more value - do you have any contacts that could undertake this for us?

There are some people that believe I am blowing this issue up out of all proportion but there are very many worried owners seeking answers and at the end of the day it is Suzukis' reticence to be honest with us that continues to fuel the debate. All I am trying to do is find out the truth of the matter and everything I have learnt to date contradicts what Suzuki tells us. I believe that the issue should have as high a profile as possible until such time as we have the answers to our questions together with proof that apparently unaffected bikes will not have problems at a later date (referring to the report on the bearings mentioned before). Without kicking up a bit of a stink we'll never get anywhere. Existing and prospective owners deserve to be properly informed and until Suzuki stop 'stone walling' us we will have to keep up pressure on them........an article on the subject in Ride would be good!!!

Any help you can give us will be appreciated.

Regards
Andy

[andyw]

BBC Watchdog campaign!

They've acknowledged receipt of my letter but because of the quantity of mail they receive it's 'pending'.........

So please get writing / texting / emailing to get things moving! (see above)

[andyw]

.....that's why we need Watchdog on the case!

Latest updates:

The 'knock' - All you need to know!

.....email to Ride Mag and response from Watchdog

[kilo]

Originally Posted by Andy B

Is there anyone out there with the knock that is not going to persue the dealer to fit new bearings?
I originally went to my dealer about my bike knocking in April after it developed a knock after its 4000 service. It was looked at and they said the injectors wanted balancing and this was done. The knock was still there slightly but it did improve it. I put my race cans back on and forgot about it. I am now wondering wether to persue it further before the warranty runs out in March or to put up with it, as the bike seems to run fine.
Also, is there anybody out there with the knock that has high miles on there bike.

Andrew

Undecided,i was told the same last year and had my bike serviced by the top tech guy at Suzuki GB who set the injection up properly,and he also increased the duration slightly (richened the mixture I think)the result was pretty damn good knock gone, engine much smoother,and it pulled like a train.

The bearing clearance it self is not the "knock" but it causes it due to increased backlash between the primary drive gears.This is much more pronounced if anything is slightly out of synch in the injection dept; ie you get a hesitancey ?? between the gears rather than both moving smoothly with constant inertia. Probably not explained very well but hope you get the drift.

HOWEVER,coming up to the 7500 service the noise started to reappear so I guess it needed looking at again.During the service the dealer mechanic (as opposed to the Suzuki trouble shooter who sorted it last time) said the tps was out and this was causing the noise and the strangely slow tickover when cold. Fast idle when cold is now much better but a slight knock when hot still concerns me slightly as it's coming to the end of warranty in april time.

Spoke to my contact at Suzuki GB at the NEC yesterday who said basically "all mechanics can be shown techniques and given knowledge, but some will never have the confidence to go into advanced areas and use it"
not really what I wanted to hear,especially as someone in the service side of the dealers has told me - if they have to rebuild the engine themselves they will basically rush the job because they don't get paid enough for warranty work( by this I think he means they are not good enough to do it in the time allowed) and it would never be as good as it was before they went in -

So, do I trade it in and take a massive financial loss,go with it and hope for the best,or insist on an engine re-build with new parts and trust they can find a home for all the pieces?

As I see it Honda are going down the right road with Solus dealers who specialise in their products only so they can keep up to the standards they and we would expect.

Not much comfort when I bought a Suzuki!

Ian

PS. Take comfort in the fact the Warranty dept assures me no-one has had an SV engine give up yet due to big end probs

[stuart]

hi....fraid the knock is a bearing problem and it wont go away just cos suzuki keep coming up with new reasons,why have they introduced a new bearing and doing the repairs on the quite?if its something else....a clearance is only going to increase as wear takes its toll..................it wont get better................i had mine done by york suzuki and the bikes lots better, it really is.....................how it should have been in the first instance,get it done and you will notice a huge improvement cos its going to be on your mind every time you take it out.it was with me......................mind the clutch now sounds like a bag of spanners but i can live with clutch noise ............not main bearing noise though
good luck

[Greggy]

i agree

it's the bearings, nothing else. throttle settings may prevent the bike from pinking, another form of knocking. get it done. get suzuki to spend some of their hard earned dosh. and the bike definitely is better.

greg

[Mr. Chris]

Originally Posted by Greggy

ithrottle settings may prevent the bike from pinking, another form of knocking.

Is 'pinking' the less manly version of pinging?