Bearings, bearings and more bearings!! - Page 10 - SV1000 Portal
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post #136 of 146 (permalink) Old 21st November 2019, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by schmidt314 View Post
I have seen issues with tapered bearing before causing some strange issues....not properly seated in the frame or could not be properly seated due to them going in slightly sideways causing some aluminum to get cut out and wedged beneath the bearing seat causing it to be off axis slightly.
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Hmm, I don't think this is likely; I have some decent experience of installing tapered head bearings in the past, and I was quite careful with their bottoming squarely. Also, this ..warble.. has been around for quite a while before I swapped the head bearings out. The old ball assembly WAS quite heavily notched, but when I changed it over, the Warble did not change. (a big disappointment!)
.
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Aero dynamics can play a big part. My bike with upright bars can get a bit of wiggle in turbulent rough air when in the vicinity of large trucks.
'

YES! This is a major symptom! At most lower speeds I don't notice this problem that much, but get up to 60 or more, it becomes more obvious, especially with wind turbulence or road surface flaws.
I do have the CNC tubular handlebar conversion, AND a low-slung Corbin seat, which puts me in a weird squat position sort of like a dog with it's paws on the table! I'm working on lowering those pegs... But I AM a pretty large load: 6'1" and 270 pounds. I did try going back to the stock clamp and clip-ons... that didn't help.
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Originally Posted by schmidt314 View Post
Under sprung rear can cause issues also because of load transfer to the rear. The other way around also. Wow, 375 lbs/in spring! How much sag on and then off the bike do you have? How is the front sprung? How is the chassis geometry in comparison to stock?
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I'm not sure WHAT spring rate I should be using; I bought a Penske 8795 used...sent it to Penske for rebuild.. it had a 400 lb spring that was like a rock, so one of you kind folks swapped me for a 375 (was that YOU, Mike?) .. which STILL seems too stiff. I'm 270 pounds and the only way I can get 40mm of sag in the back is to have the preload almost all the way out.
In front I have Sonic springs at 1.0kg as I remember... with a Gold Valve kit.. I think running 5 Wt (maybe 7.5 I'd have to check the notes). I get about 25-30mm sag up front.
Could this be an overly-stiff spring rate out back? Or, is it possible the shock length is too high? It's been a while...but I THINK it was the same as stock when I first installed it, pretty sure I would have checked that carefully three years ago.

Thanks for the help, guys. I really like my SV, but this Warble is drilling me!
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post #137 of 146 (permalink) Old 21st November 2019, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schmidt314 View Post
I have seen issues with tapered bearing before causing some strange issues. I have seen several sets installed that were not properly seated in the frame or could not be properly seated due to them going in slightly sideways causing some aluminum to get cut out and wedged beneath the bearing seat causing it to be off axis slightly.

If this is the case you can never seem to get bearings tensioned properly. They either seem too loose or too tight.

There are lots of things that can cause issues such as you describe and you are checking many of them.

Other suggestions from folks also seem inline.

Here are my additions.
Tires and tire pressures
Too much damping in steering can cause oscillations.
Aero dynamics can play a big part. My bike with upright bars can get a bit of wiggle in turbulent rough air when in the vicinity of large trucks.
Under sprung rear can cause issues also because of load transfer to the rear. The other way around also. Wow, 375 lbs/in spring! How much sag on and then off the bike do you have? How is the front sprung? How is the chassis geometry in comparison to stock?

Cheers
-ms


Interesting. I donít weight quite as much as you and run a much heavier rear spring. My commuter is set a bit stiff because I often have 20-40lbs of motorcycle parts and work stuff loaded on.

With stiffer fork springs I often have to run more total sag on the front because of you measure the free length with wheel off the ground, the stiff spring, and soft top out springs make the measurement a bit longer than normal. My SV runs about 40mm total in the front due to this and I run a total of about 32mm in the rear.

It seems to me that your bike might be riding pretty tall in the front and low in the rear. I still am not quite sure why you canít seem to get proper sag from a 375lb/in spring unless it is too long. I think I am on a 500lb/in or 525lb/in. I canít remember. What shock length are you running?

-ms


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post #138 of 146 (permalink) Old 21st November 2019, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by schmidt314 View Post
It seems to me that your bike might be riding pretty tall in the front and low in the rear. I still am not quite sure why you canít seem to get proper sag from a 375lb/in spring unless it is too long. I think I am on a 500lb/in or 525lb/in. I canít remember. What shock length are you running?

-ms
....just a thought, he might have the right length spring, but the spacer tube hasn't been shortened to equal the original "stack" height of the OEM spring and spacer

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post #139 of 146 (permalink) Old 22nd November 2019, 07:46 PM
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Okay! thanks!

First, I realized my spring rate numbers were off:

Checking my notes and the Penske manual, the shock actually has a 400 spring in there, after changing from the original 475. Still... it's quite less than what you're running (500).

Also, my rear sag numbers were not accurate. I get confused... I mistakenly didn't lift the bike off the ground (as the Penske manual calls for "A"), but rather just lifted the rear gently and then lightly settled it for the first number. Then I hoisted my carcass on-board for "B".
So, (until I can get another couple of assistants), I can assume that my rear sag is likely over-limit, as with my (incorrect) method we got about 45mm.

LENGTH

I don't have a measurement for this. (I don't recall there being any installation problem from being too long... but this was three years ago).

Shock spacer... not familiar with this part; I have the Penske manual in front of me and can't see what this would refer to..(?)

I did buy this Penske 8975 off of Ebay, used.. so it's possible that the length or adjustments have been futzed-with... But again, I did have it rebuilt at Penske before use. Hmm.

But I DO recall one thing: last year I reduced the rebound in back to almost it's max (out)... and the handling (warble) improved noticeably.

Thanx guys!
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post #140 of 146 (permalink) Old 22nd November 2019, 07:55 PM
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post #141 of 146 (permalink) Old 23rd November 2019, 05:11 AM
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Okay! thanks!

First, I realized my spring rate numbers were off:

Checking my notes and the Penske manual, the shock actually has a 400 spring in there, after changing from the original 475. Still... it's quite less than what you're running (500).

Also, my rear sag numbers were not accurate. I get confused... I mistakenly didn't lift the bike off the ground (as the Penske manual calls for "A"), but rather just lifted the rear gently and then lightly settled it for the first number. Then I hoisted my carcass on-board for "B".
So, (until I can get another couple of assistants), I can assume that my rear sag is likely over-limit, as with my (incorrect) method we got about 45mm.

LENGTH

I don't have a measurement for this. (I don't recall there being any installation problem from being too long... but this was three years ago).

Shock spacer... not familiar with this part; I have the Penske manual in front of me and can't see what this would refer to..(?)

I did buy this Penske 8975 off of Ebay, used.. so it's possible that the length or adjustments have been futzed-with... But again, I did have it rebuilt at Penske before use. Hmm.

But I DO recall one thing: last year I reduced the rebound in back to almost it's max (out)... and the handling (warble) improved noticeably.

Thanx guys!


It would be interesting to see what the eye to eye length is.

Fully extend rear and measure.
Set total sag to 30-32mm
Now measure unloaded sag. If the spring is in the zone I would expect you to see 8-12mm. If less or none, this can be a sign of spring being too light.

Having way to much total sag causes the rear linkage to operate in the higher rate region and also prone to blowing through the existing travel and hitting the bumper. This can make the bike feel extremely stiff, ride way into the travel along with wiggles that can happen in the chassis from heavy weight distribution on the rear. This is even further aggravated by a shock length that is too short. Then with such small sag in the front, makes more of an issue.

Just my 2 cents...
-ms


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post #142 of 146 (permalink) Old 25th November 2019, 12:27 AM
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I guess I'll just have to do me some CIPHERIN', Uncle Jed!
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post #143 of 146 (permalink) Old 25th November 2019, 02:18 AM
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When i mentioned spacer, that was for the front forks.....

When you change from an OEM spring to others, the new spring is quiet often different in length, normally it will be
longer.
Stock fork springs are usually prorogressive style and are tightly wound at one end and the wire is thinner.

Because of the length difference, you cut the extra length of the new spring off of the spacer tube that is installed on top of the spring.....

The more openly wound thinner wire also displaces less fork oil, and therefore the oil height needs to be brought up (less air gap) to compensate....

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post #144 of 146 (permalink) Old 26th November 2019, 04:45 PM
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Right... I think I've got the fork oil level correct. Right now it's got the stock spacers in there... Sonic 1.0Kg springs..

Wintertime is almost upon us here in the US Northeast (today is warm, at 60 deg. F! Probably the last before we get heavy frosts and they muck up the roads with salt brine) so I should be able to get down with the suspension both front and back soon.

Uhm, for starting purposes... could someone provide me with baseline SAG numbers?
Txs!
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post #145 of 146 (permalink) Old 27th November 2019, 04:29 AM
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What length are the Sonic springs ?

Stock springs for the 03 model, and i thnk all are the same, has a wear limit of 290mm minimum, and the Racetechs that i ran were 310 long, so i trimmed just under 20mm off the spacer.....(i thnk mine stockies were 292mm long)

Similar with the GSXR front end i am running now..... i think i had to take 8mm off....

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post #146 of 146 (permalink) Old 27th November 2019, 04:44 AM
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Right... I think I've got the fork oil level correct. Right now it's got the stock spacers in there... Sonic 1.0Kg springs..



Wintertime is almost upon us here in the US Northeast (today is warm, at 60 deg. F! Probably the last before we get heavy frosts and they muck up the roads with salt brine) so I should be able to get down with the suspension both front and back soon.



Uhm, for starting purposes... could someone provide me with baseline SAG numbers?

Txs!


For a regular street going SV1000
Forks at standard height in clamps.
With a 1.0kg/mm spring I would be setting total front sag starting point to 38mm. The soft top out springs give you a few extra mm to add in, so often 38-40mm is a good base line. If you have stiffer top outs installed that are the same length, set to 36mm.

On the rear
What shock length are you running? Is you unit ride height adjustable? I ask because if the shock is shorter than stock the rear will not work well and might feel overly stiff and chassis will behave weird.
Free sag if the spring is close in range should be 6-12mm range and a total sag of 30-34mm should be a good starting point.

-ms


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