SV650 vs SV1000, why all the hate? - SV1000 Portal
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 5th December 2010, 06:22 AM Thread Starter
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SV650 vs SV1000, why all the hate?

When I was researching about the SV I found that a lot of people praise the 650 and hate the 1000. Some even go as far as to say that the "riding position" on the SV1000 is awfull (can't be that different if they share the same body). Others hate it because of the weight, wich is kinda... ridiculous, specially when you consider that a Ninja 500 weights about the same as the SV1000 or that the SV1000 is 40lbs lighter than a Katana. And some hate it because they expected it to be a TL successor...

None of them hate it because of it's clutch, which so far is the only thing I haven't liked about it.

BUT I don't have any real seat time on the SV650, so... Why all the hate?

I went with the SV1000 because it had:
a) 4 pot calipers (moot point if I go with a GSX-R front end)
b) Cartridge forks and if I decide to go with a GSX-R front end swap, I won't have to deal with the speedometer sensor relocation and I can keep the stock front wheel.
c) I want the bike to remain stock. I didn't want to buy a bike with too many "maybes" (maybe if I change X I'll like it, maybe if I modify Y I'll like it, etc. And the 650 had too many maybes for me) The 1000 had everything I wanted stock, and so far I'm not feeling the need to change anything (but the clutch).
d) Price difference was nill (actually the 1000 would end up being cheaper after modifying the 650 suspension/brakes).

I have no intentions of riding the SV1K on the track, as I have a track bike for that, so how it rode on the street was more important for me than how it does on the track. I can see why some people would be disappointed with it on the track or felony riding on the street...

But I think there are downsides to the 650, like the brakes or those damn damping rod forks (basically the same downsides on both bikes, power is subjective, so I won't say anything about that)

So... why is the 650 a cult like bike and the 1K gets no love?
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 5th December 2010, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Süsser Tod View Post
When I was researching about the SV I found that a lot of people praise the 650 and hate the 1000. Some even go as far as to say that the "riding position" on the SV1000 is awfull (can't be that different if they share the same body). Others hate it because of the weight, wich is kinda... ridiculous, specially when you consider that a Ninja 500 weights about the same as the SV1000 or that the SV1000 is 40lbs lighter than a Katana. And some hate it because they expected it to be a TL successor...

None of them hate it because of it's clutch, which so far is the only thing I haven't liked about it.

BUT I don't have any real seat time on the SV650, so... Why all the hate?

I went with the SV1000 because it had:
a) 4 pot calipers (moot point if I go with a GSX-R front end)
b) Cartridge forks and if I decide to go with a GSX-R front end swap, I won't have to deal with the speedometer sensor relocation and I can keep the stock front wheel.
c) I want the bike to remain stock. I didn't want to buy a bike with too many "maybes" (maybe if I change X I'll like it, maybe if I modify Y I'll like it, etc. And the 650 had too many maybes for me) The 1000 had everything I wanted stock, and so far I'm not feeling the need to change anything (but the clutch).
d) Price difference was nill (actually the 1000 would end up being cheaper after modifying the 650 suspension/brakes).

I have no intentions of riding the SV1K on the track, as I have a track bike for that, so how it rode on the street was more important for me than how it does on the track. I can see why some people would be disappointed with it on the track or felony riding on the street...

But I think there are downsides to the 650, like the brakes or those damn damping rod forks (basically the same downsides on both bikes, power is subjective, so I won't say anything about that)

So... why is the 650 a cult like bike and the 1K gets no love?
It's just penis envy or small man syndrome. The little guys have to show more teeth to get respect while the big dog just ignores them.


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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 5th December 2010, 07:57 AM
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I don't think it is hate as much as disappointment. Many feel that Suzuki only did a half ass job on the SV1k with regard to fit & finish as well as suspension components. The 650 is a great entry level bike, but rather than taking the 1k up a knotch, they kept it on par with the 650.

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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 5th December 2010, 08:13 AM
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I owned a 2000 650N, and loved it. Had a bad high side crash in '02 (10 days in the hospital- ouch), but repaired it (much cheaper than my own repair, lol) and rode on until I got my new '03 1KS in '05. The 1000 does have much better suspension than the 650, IMO, and fits a 6ft+ rider better. I would still own a SV650 though- it is a great bike.


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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 5th December 2010, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDog View Post
It's just penis envy or small man syndrome. The little guys have to show more teeth to get respect while the big dog just ignores them.

Hit the nail right on the head
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 5th December 2010, 10:08 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkyglie View Post
I don't think it is hate as much as disappointment. Many feel that Suzuki only did a half ass job on the SV1k with regard to fit & finish as well as suspension components. The 650 is a great entry level bike, but rather than taking the 1k up a knotch, they kept it on par with the 650.
If the body is shared between both bikes (plastics, tank, speedo, etc) fit and finish can't be different, so I don't understand that comment.

As for the suspension components... They were on par with the kind of suspension components that the SS 600 bikes were wearing back in 2003. Sure, not USD forks like on the SS literbikes, but it was not meant to be one... And the suspension on the SV1K is leaps and bounds better than the damping rods on the 650, it was on par with the suspension of the SS 600s, and those were not entry level bikes, so it was a notch above the SV650 in power, suspension and brakes.
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 5th December 2010, 10:41 AM
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The 1000 has always been a cult bike........you either love it or hate it. Sad but that is the case. I love mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 5th December 2010, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Süsser Tod View Post
When I was researching about the SV I found that a lot of people praise the 650 and hate the 1000. Some even go as far as to say that the "riding position" on the SV1000 is awfull (can't be that different if they share the same body). Others hate it because of the weight, wich is kinda... ridiculous, specially when you consider that a Ninja 500 weights about the same as the SV1000 or that the SV1000 is 40lbs lighter than a Katana. And some hate it because they expected it to be a TL successor...
If you check around, you will also see that a LOT of folks LOVE the SV1000. There is a lot to love. Low weight, more than sufficient power, nice spread of power, good handling, etc.

As for those who are disappointed with the SV1000, I think that you partially answered your own question. A number of folks came to the SV1000 expecting it to be something that it is not. It isn't exactly like an SV650 with more power. It isn't exactly like a TL only newer. it isn't exactly like a Ducati Monster only cheaper.

The SV1000 has a sportier, more extreme (read: less comfortable) riding position than the SV650. The SV1000 isn't built to the standard of a Ducati; but then again, for the price (about half that of the Ducati) it is much much more than half as good.

The SV1000 was a really good bike built to sell at an attractive price point. It has shortcomings, all of which can easily be fixed if you feel the need. In fact, that's the SV1000's biggest strength, in my humble opinion, is that you can easily make the bike be exactly what you want it to be, and you can do so fairly easily and inexpensively.

In any case, since when do real motorcycle riders care what anyone else says about their bike? You should buy the bike that you fall in love with, and ignore what anyone else says about it.

I'm still impressed with what a good choice I made purchasing my SV! I love this bike. If I were to go out today looking for a replacement, there are certainly bikes out there that I suspect that I would enjoy quite a bit, but I'm not sure that there are any bikes that I would ultimately like more.
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 5th December 2010, 12:45 PM
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All I can say is it was love at first ride with the SV. Brought my sons DRZ 400 into the shop for some service and spotted it on the showroom floor Steve the sales guy said it was a new bike from Suzuki they just got in and said why not take it out while the DR was being serviced.After just 25 miles I knew that bike was what I was looking for,rode home showed it to the family. By the time I got back to the dealer my son was there and he and Steve were waiting in the parking lot as I pulled up. When I took of the helmet my son turned to the sales guy and said see that stupid grin on his face that bike has a new home. He was right (mabe not the best negotiating tactic) but he was right. I asked for the controls to be moded told him to have it ready on Monday and gave him my offer.2 days later the bike was home with me and to this day I still get that stupid grin evey time I take her out. Yea there have been upgrades done but that is only fine tuning a quality product.

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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 5th December 2010, 01:21 PM
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For the most part, RedDog was right.

But another point yet to be made.....

The 1K isn't a "starter bike", while the 650 is an entry level machine. And by that virtue alone, the 650 attracts kids.

In years past, any kid that had any bike was a happy kid. But many of today's kids are spoiled rotten little brats! If they can't have "the best", then they over expound on the short commings (as they percieve them)of everything else, as a means of tearing down what they don't have. Whatever they have, must be "the best". So if they don't have it, it's a target fot slander. Consequently, their own preconcieved notions let them down.

Then there are the ones that have/had a 650, then step up to the 1K. And because it isn't the exact same with just more power, the differences become "stupid". They have no humility, but feel an overabundance of unearned authority. They can't seem to grasp that they are two totally different machines, whose only commonallity is the basic motor configuration and cosmetic bodywork. Again, preconcieved notions.....

Personally, I don't give 650's much thought at all. To me, they are only an unending supply of available body parts.
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 5th December 2010, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
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Personally, I don't give 650's much thought at all. To me, they are only an unending supply of available body parts.
LOL! That's hilarious.

I can give a quick comparo to my last TLS (98) which may shed a bit of light on this as well.

Newer sportbikes are supposed to supersede older models. In sportbike terms this means more power and better handling. The SV is deemed to be the new TL by many. So it's a failure compared to the TLS.

MY TLS had 120 rwhp. Shorter gearing, bitubo rear, Racetech front, TRE, racing airbox & filter, Hyperpro damper, full Yosh race exhaust, LSL kit, and the list goes on (a bit of engine brething as well). The bike turned telepathically fast, had a front wheel elevation control as opposed to a throttle, and was pretty comfy with the bars and Corbin I had.

On turn in and power it easily eclipsed the SV I have now (even stock, the 98 was not a neutered TL, the 99 and on were). So it was a better bike right? Bullshit. More fun, yes, for short bursts. BUT you had to be full on mentally wired and were usually reversing the throttle just to keep a lid on things when you weren't going for it.

In a turn, one quarter of a millimeter of throttle in first sent the front end soaring skyward. Not much fun when you are just tooling around and not wanting to devote every synaptic response to focusing on total bike control as if you were racing Rossi out of the final corner. The ride was a bit punishing after 30 minutes (even stock, much worse after the mods), and with the handlebar mod there was no shield configuration that would not buffet you, unlike the SV with the stock shield and bars.

So the SV was doomed in the minds of the sportbiking youth, it wasn't the latest, greatest, fastest new bike out there.

But I think it's a far BETTER machine as evolved.

As much fun as a TLS going for a rip? No chance!

More fun after an hour, going for a longer trip, living with it every single day for every type of riding? Absolutely!

And the engine even in DL1000 guise still doesn't bore the ever loving crap out of me like the Honda Superhawk did. The SV1000S is a winner in every respect.


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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 5th December 2010, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Süsser Tod View Post
If the body is shared between both bikes (plastics, tank, speedo, etc) fit and finish can't be different, so I don't understand that comment.

As for the suspension components... They were on par with the kind of suspension components that the SS 600 bikes were wearing back in 2003. Sure, not USD forks like on the SS literbikes, but it was not meant to be one... And the suspension on the SV1K is leaps and bounds better than the damping rods on the 650, it was on par with the suspension of the SS 600s, and those were not entry level bikes, so it was a notch above the SV650 in power, suspension and brakes.
That is the the point, fit & finish wise many people have complained it is cheap. The 996 motor was brought into being to compete against I4 750s not the SS 600s. The fact that Suzuki had better parts that could have been used was a sticking point. The '05 & newer SV1ks have different forks than the '03/'04s, they cannot be revalved. So again Suzuki went cheaper rather than upgrade. Don't get me wrong, personally, I love my SV & would not part with it, these are comments you will find throughout this forum on threads similar to this........

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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 5th December 2010, 08:26 PM
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I've owned an 02 650s, 03 1Ks and currently own an 05 1Ks. Loved the 650s, but once I bought my first 1Ks, I fell deeper in love with it! I also ride on occasion my gf's 03 650. For around town I like the 650, but for commuting on the highway I really like my 1K! As one guy mentioned I'd love to pick a 650 trackbike b/c there seems to be plenty of spare parts. =) Just my 2cents...
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 5th December 2010, 11:13 PM
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It has been spitting snow since I brought mine home so I really can't give my personal opinion on what I think of my 1K.
I have ridden a 650 for a short ride and it seemed to offer a pretty decent fun ride, so I have real high expectations for my !k when I get a chance to take it for an all day ride.
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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 6th December 2010, 12:00 AM
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I found it amusing someone posted this.

I met sv1000 haters on my sv650 down at deals gap in october. I asked them about the 1000's because that was the first time I had ever seen one. They ranted and raved how much better the 650 handles, the 1000 is to much work to be fun on the dragon blah blah blah.

The next week after I got home I sold the 650 for my 1000 and havent looked back! SV1000 haters most likely have never owned one. The 1000 is everything that the 650 is only a bit better and a lot faster. And my 1000 gets comparable fuel economy!

I also have to add that I picked up my sv1000 for $500-1000 less than most of the 650's that were listed locally because theyre not popular bikes here.
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