fuel pump problem? - SV1000 Portal
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 28th October 2015, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
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fuel pump problem?

Hi guys,

Lately i am experiencing some hesitation in high rpm when i quickly hit full throttle (aggresive riding). Mainly after 7k rpm.. It feels like there is a delay for 1 second or so until the power comes back (like clutch slippage although it does not slip). Also after 9k rpm it feels like it lacks power. I don't think its a problem with the pc map that i am currently running since i don't remember having this issue before..

TPS and PC are adjusted corrently. Plugs are fairly new (iridium ngk).Also, i did a TB sync this year. I am afraid that the fuel pump is faulty, which is not unexpectable since my bike already has 80k km on the clocks. I read that the actual fuel filter is made of paper and there is no easy way to clean it. Should i look for a oem complete fuel pump assembly then?Are there any other options?

Thanks,
George
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 28th October 2015, 08:45 PM
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The pumps are available online for a very reasonable fee, it's the filter that is the bugger. Suzuki wants $250 for one! The DL guys have figured out a way to bypass the filter whilst retaining the pressure regulator then fitting an external filter to protect the injectors. This is what I'd recommend you do.

I tore my stock filter apart just to see what was inside...and was very unimpressed with it. Made of paper and VERY tiny...but of course it's not called on to flow massive amounts of fuel to feed the lump, but still the surface area was minimal so debris or dirt would eventually clog it much sooner than a larger one. Let me find the DL posts about the external filter for you...be back.

Here you go: http://www.vstrom.info/Smf/index.php/topic,6105.0.html
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 28th October 2015, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks a lot, the more i read about it the more i think that the pump is probably ok but the filter is clogged.. Nice idea with the bypass i will have a good look on it now. I might try to clean it first, bottom filter is easy and for the top sealed one i can use an ultrasonic device that i have although i dont know if it will be any effective. I will measure the volume before and after the to see if it made an improvement.. Looks like i have things to do this weekend..
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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 29th October 2015, 12:14 AM
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The volume test IS a good one to check how healthy the system might be. Manual calls for unplugging the ECU and running the pump for 10 sec. but that's a lot of hassle. We've been just using 3 key-on cycles which should jog the pump 3 sec each which is pretty close. 5 oz of fuel or more will mean a good enough pump/filter...at least on the volume side of things.

Be careful trying to clean that high pressure filter! It's just paper and pretty fragile. Not sure how effective an ultra-sound bath will be knocking the microscopic particles from the paper..but it might work. Worth a try anyhow. If it should fail...the bypass drilling is a fallback position. Good luck!
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 29th October 2015, 07:45 AM
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Swap your petrol tank with a mates ! Easy 10 min job.then try it.



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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 29th October 2015, 09:06 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterrose View Post
Swap your petrol tank with a mates ! Easy 10 min job.then try it.
That's difficult.. The sv aren't popular here especially the 1000. The closest i can go is my mates tlr 1000 but
i don't think that this can fit.. or maybe my mates vstrom?

I will probably follow the route descripted here:How to clean the high pressure Fuel filter - Suzuki SV650 Forum: SV650, SV1000, Gladius Forums

Try to clean the lower filter and for the upper high pressure filter use a fuel hand pump ( which i try to find in a local store with no luck yet) connected opposite to the normal flow direction. Then use an ultrasonic cleaner and pray that most of the dirt will get out... I can't believe how much suzuki charges for a piece of paper..
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 29th October 2015, 11:48 PM
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The cost comes from the High Pressure Filter incorporating the fuel pressure regulator, plus it's a large part of the fuel pump assembly. Still VERY high priced for a filter. Be REAL careful back-flushing the thing...that paper is delicate and there was one fellow who did that and said it wouldn't flow then it made a 'pop' sound and all kinds of black stuff gushed out. After that it flowed very easily...but likely didn't have the ability to filter anymore.

The SV650 shares tanks with the 1K's...so if you know someone with one you could do Pete's suggestion..which is a good one.
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 30th October 2015, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
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Friday night and i wanted to have a look in the pump... I started with the volume test..
It failed since only ~80ml where pumped into my bottle in 3 cycle iterations (~9seconds).
Its going out tomorrow...
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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 30th October 2015, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gphilos View Post
Friday night and i wanted to have a look in the pump... I started with the volume test..
It failed since only ~80ml where pumped into my bottle in 3 cycle iterations (~9seconds).
Its going out tomorrow...

Ah...GOOD! At least you now know where the problem lies. The pump doesn't normally wear out...there are no rubbing parts within them so if it still spins it's likely OK. You could always remove it and jump it without the filter to see how it pumps...might just need the filter attended to.

Of course, the various aftermarket fuel pumps aren't expensive...though I don't know about where you live. I knew my filter was clogged...but put in a fresh pump just because I was in there and it was only $30 or so IIRC. Looks like you might get first hand experience with the filter bypass mod!
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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 31st October 2015, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gphilos View Post
Friday night and i wanted to have a look in the pump... I started with the volume test..
It failed since only ~80ml where pumped into my bottle in 3 cycle iterations (~9seconds).
Its going out tomorrow...
That's a good way to do it on the bike. I only got around 65mL when I tested mine off the bike with a battery from a cordless tool.
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 31st October 2015, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
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Update:

I did clean the pump today.. The tank was clean without any rust and the same for the pump assemply. The low pressure filter was full of dirt and also the base of the pump assemply (see photos).. I cleaned them with fuel and also in the ultrasonic cleaner. The results were amazing. For the high pressure filter, i chose not to use the ultrasonic cleaner because i think it wouldnt be effective and also i didn't want to risk damaging the paper filter. So i filled in with gas and handshaking many times pumping fuel the opposite direction. There was some black gas and small particles coming off so i guess i cleaned a little bit (no much i think). Then back on the bike and test: 220ml in 3 cycles! Wtf? I went for a ride but again the same problems. Hesitation when applying full throttle instantly.. I got back in the garage and did another volume test: constanlty around ~150-160ml in 3-4 times that i tried ( i don't know why i got 220ml the first time, maybe because it was emtpy?).

The conclusion is that i didn't solve the problem but it was good that i cleaned this thing. Iam thinking buying another pump motor, any thoughts?
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 1st November 2015, 12:42 AM
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I blasted out the HP filter backwards with compressed air and carb cleaner. I may have damaged the filter but there are filters on the injectors so I'll check those if it happens again soon. I have $250 more in my pocket for now at least.
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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 1st November 2015, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gphilos View Post
Update:

I did clean the pump today.. The tank was clean without any rust and the same for the pump assemply. The low pressure filter was full of dirt and also the base of the pump assemply (see photos).. I cleaned them with fuel and also in the ultrasonic cleaner. The results were amazing. For the high pressure filter, i chose not to use the ultrasonic cleaner because i think it wouldnt be effective and also i didn't want to risk damaging the paper filter. So i filled in with gas and handshaking many times pumping fuel the opposite direction. There was some black gas and small particles coming off so i guess i cleaned a little bit (no much i think). Then back on the bike and test: 220ml in 3 cycles! Wtf? I went for a ride but again the same problems. Hesitation when applying full throttle instantly.. I got back in the garage and did another volume test: constanlty around ~150-160ml in 3-4 times that i tried ( i don't know why i got 220ml the first time, maybe because it was emtpy?).

The conclusion is that i didn't solve the problem but it was good that i cleaned this thing. Iam thinking buying another pump motor, any thoughts?
Do you still have the STV's in operation? If so, they could be the source of your hesitation going WOT as they can take a little bit to go from closed to open. Mine hesitated enough that I took them out as every shift had a noticeable delay before the power came back on. Without them...it hits HARD on every shift like it should.

The 150-160ml is right on the borderline of OK or not...and the fact that it flowed 220 at first might mean the filter was unblocked a bit but clogged back up again. I've not tried to clean one so have no opinion on how effective that might be...but am doubtful as to how well that might work without damaging it. (I guess that IS an opinion... )

Besides the volume test, could you 'T' in a pressure gauge to watch while it's running? This is what I did back when mine was clogging to verify that it indeed was the problem. Amazingly it ran pretty decently until the pressure dropped below 20 psi!! With new pump and filter (ouch!$$$) it holds 45 psi all the way through the rev range.

On yours, if the only complaint is a momentary hesitation going WOT, the fuel delivery might not be the problem and a pressure gauge would illuminate whether this is true or not. When mine was dropping pressure it layed down...not just instantly but as the revs were coming up the power was dropping. If it feels OK after the momentary hesitation I'd get after the STV's first.
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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 1st November 2015, 06:25 AM Thread Starter
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@RecoilRob: I don't have the STVs on my bike anymore.. I removed them last year and one of the winter projects is to completely remove the axles and the servo.. Anyway, the bike behaves as following: on heavy throttle opening (80-100%) it sometimes runs flat for a second or two and then accelerates. After this flat spot ( i mean the bike doesn't move) it can rev to limiter but i think not as hard as before..

I did a last volume test today because yesterday i was tired and wanted to be sure on the results. My findings are better than yesterdays (although today the test performed on a cold engine): constantly pumps 60-65ml per cycle so that means more than 180 (~200). Hmm, this problably means that the filters are ok?. The pressure measurement is something that i would like to do but i have to search where i can buy such a setup (an ebay link would be useful).

I also had a look for aftermarket pumps, maybe i will try a new pump motor at the end. If it doesn't fix the problem then i will bypass the filter. What about this one? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Intank...AAAOSwu4BV6Gqe.

Another idea is to buy a used fuel pump assembly but that's is risky imo cause it may suffer from the same problem..
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 2nd November 2015, 10:20 PM
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I believe most of the inexpensive fuel pumps are just repurposed car units....so going cheap 'shouldn't' hurt you. How about this one? SUZUKI SV1000S SV1000 S 1000 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 FUEL PUMP MOTORCYCLE | eBay

Your volume test results are right at the bottom of 'OK' and might be fooling you into thinking they're alright. Most of the tests I've seen others do had them putting out almost double the minimum with a healthy pump and filter. So maybe your idea of changing out the pump first then if problems continue to bypass the filter is a good plan. Would be interesting to see what kind of flow you get out of the new pump on that old filter.

I'd think you could source a 60+ psi pressure gauge locally to 'T' into the fuel hose. Wouldn't have to be pretty, or even very durable just for this diagnosis unless you plan to keep it permanently installed for maintenance. Even an oil pressure gauge (mechanical) would do the deed if that's all you can find.
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