What to lube when re-installing camshafts - SV1000 Portal
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 4th November 2018, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
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What to lube when re-installing camshafts

Hi,

I did a (very!) quick search to see if the question has been brought up before. I'm almost positive it has, but I didn't find it.

I'm adjusting valve clearances and have reached this part of the manual:
"Before placing the camshafts on cylinder head, apply molybdenum oil solution to their journals and cam faces. Apply engine oil to the camshaft journal holders"

I've googled that "molybdenum oil solution" can be replaced by engine assembly lube, but I have really no clue what goes where and the internet wasn't helpful.

The journals - are those the things on the camshaft resting on the bearings?
The journal holders - what are those then? The part you bolt onto the camshaft to keep it in place?
Cam faces - are those the lobes? if so, I assume only the pointy ends should be lubed?

As you can tell, I don't really know the lingo at all.

Also, now when we're at it, the manual also says to "pour engine oil in each oil pocket" of the cylinder heads. What does that refer to exactly? Which pockets?

Help.
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 4th November 2018, 10:31 PM
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Here's a section from the "Engine" section of the service manual on page 3-107 that shows the lube points:
camshaft lube points.jpg

I used engine assembly lube like this (got it at O'Reilly's):
engine assembly lube.jpg

And the oil pockets are pictured here on page 3-112 and in a pic from my own engine (there are 4 per head):
oil pockets.jpg
oil pockets2.jpg

I poured quite a bit of oil basically all over the place.

Good luck dude!


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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 5th November 2018, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elendil View Post
The journals - are those the things on the camshaft resting on the bearings?
The journal holders - what are those then? The part you bolt onto the camshaft to keep it in place?
Cam faces - are those the lobes? if so, I assume only the pointy ends should be lubed?

Also, now when we're at it, the manual also says to "pour engine oil in each oil pocket" of the cylinder heads. What does that refer to exactly? Which pockets?
The journals - are part of the head, which behaves as a bearing/base of the cam.
The journal holdes - correct - the mating surface between cam and holder
Cam faces - correct
Pockets - showed by oldbaldsob

When I did my valves, I didn't use any assembly lube nor moly-based oil. I simply used the engine oil instead, which I put in after adjustment as regular oil change. I cleaned all cam/journal mating faces and smeared coulple of oil drops over them. Torqing down the cam holder slowly and carefully, so they sit properly. After the assembly, I poured oil all over the head and put the valve cover on.

I always had an impression, that moly-based lubes should be used, when you are placing new parts in. As the mating surfaces are different now (not old-old, but new-old), you need to reduce fricting to minimum, so you don't risk extensive scoring or seazing during the wear process. Or am I wrong?
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 5th November 2018, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Hasha View Post
I always had an impression, that moly-based lubes should be used, when you are placing new parts in. As the mating surfaces are different now (not old-old, but new-old), you need to reduce fricting to minimum, so you don't risk extensive scoring or seazing during the wear process. Or am I wrong?
That's interesting. In my case, since it had been years since my engine ran and I replaced the oil cooler, I figure that use of assembly lube would be prudent since oil had completely drained from all internal passages IMHO.

Maybe D.T., Longhair, RecoilRob, or schmidt314 could chime in and give their thoughts.


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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 7th November 2018, 08:56 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you, all

That was very helpful, not least the actual picture of the pockets from oldbaldsob. Those manual pictures are really horrible.

So to recap (Iím sorry, Iím slow, but Iíd like to get this right and not unnecessarily put extra wear on the engine):
- The journals are actually the bearings that the camshaft rests on
- The journal holders are the parts on the camshaft that rests on the journals
- Cam faces are cam lobes and the part to lube is the part of it that actually touches on the valve mechanism

Correct?

Hashaís point about engine assembly lube is something Iíve pondered myself. I canít really see why engine oil wouldnít be sufficient. I read somewhere that engine assembly lube is thicker and will thus not ďrun offĒ as easily, but whatís the difference in that and having the bike parked for a couple of weeks? I especially canít see why I should lube the cam lobes.

But the manual calls for it, and I think Iím going to use it, since my understanding is quite limited at this point.
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 7th November 2018, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elendil View Post
Thank you, all



That was very helpful, not least the actual picture of the pockets from oldbaldsob. Those manual pictures are really horrible.



So to recap (Iím sorry, Iím slow, but Iíd like to get this right and not unnecessarily put extra wear on the engine):

- The journals are actually the bearings that the camshaft rests on

- The journal holders are the parts on the camshaft that rests on the journals

- Cam faces are cam lobes and the part to lube is the part of it that actually touches on the valve mechanism



Correct?



Hashaís point about engine assembly lube is something Iíve pondered myself. I canít really see why engine oil wouldnít be sufficient. I read somewhere that engine assembly lube is thicker and will thus not ďrun offĒ as easily, but whatís the difference in that and having the bike parked for a couple of weeks? I especially canít see why I should lube the cam lobes.



But the manual calls for it, and I think Iím going to use it, since my understanding is quite limited at this point.

In the case of a broken in motor I personally think the use of engine oil is just fine, but I in most cases wipe on a bit of the thin or thick Redline assembly lube. I think the idea of the assembly lube is because the cams will drain the oil out of the cores when out of bike. This means it takes a tiny bit more time once started to get them filled and supplying oil to the journals and bucket interfaces. The assembly lube just is a bit better at supplying lubrication in this situation until the piling system catches up.

-ms


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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 7th November 2018, 04:04 PM
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Seems to be a bit of insurance to me. Maybe someone would wipe the bearing surfaces dry and start the bike, relying on oil flow if it's there. New heads are a PITA to replace if you burned up a bearing surface.

I had redline lube for years but tossed it this year for Lucas assembly lube in a small squeeze bottle.

Lucas Assembly Lube | Zinc Moly Formula 4 oz. Bottle | 10152

Got it at Autozone.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 7th November 2018, 07:50 PM
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only use oil on the cam lobes so your valve clearance checking will be accurate.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 8th November 2018, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by falconbobb View Post
only use oil on the cam lobes so your valve clearance checking will be accurate.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


I use cam and or assembly lube all the time and have no issues measuring clearances.

Can you expand on your statement further please.

-ms


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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 9th November 2018, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by schmidt314 View Post
In the case of a broken in motor I personally think the use of engine oil is just fine, but I in most cases wipe on a bit of the thin or thick Redline assembly lube. I think the idea of the assembly lube is because the cams will drain the oil out of the cores when out of bike.
Actually good point, I didn't think of it like that before...so moly-based lube is one more thing to buy
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 9th November 2018, 06:30 AM
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Actually good point, I didn't think of it like that before...so moly-based lube is one more thing to buy


Suzuki I think says mix engine oil with moly assembly paste for assembly.

I donít like the moly, only for the fact that it is not very friendly with clutches so do t go wild with it.

-ms


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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 9th November 2018, 02:52 PM
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Question

What do you think of the new break in oils Mike?

Seems to be lot more common nowadays...

https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p...4-Break-In-Oil

Quote:
BEST ANSWER: Maxima does not list moly as an additive but they do state that it is safe to use in a wet clutch. This is directly from their site " For all air and water cooled 4 cycle engines. Safe for use in wet clutches and motorcycle transmissions. NOT RECOMMENDED FOR STREET USE. MAXIMA PREMIUM BREAK-IN OIL formula has elevated anti-wear additives designed to protect engines in extreme conditions. Elevated anti-wear additives may adversely impact emissions systems on motorcycles fitted with catalyst.".
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 9th November 2018, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by D.T. View Post
What do you think of the new break in oils Mike?

Seems to be lot more common nowadays...

https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p...4-Break-In-Oil


I use the Dumonde Tech B4 on all new engines these days that I build.

-ms


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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 9th November 2018, 05:19 PM
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 4th December 2018, 06:07 PM Thread Starter
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Just to make a short follow-up post:

Helped by this thread I managed to adjust the valve clearances. She started right up and sounded very happy.

I had initially ordered some molybdenum grease, but it took ages to arrive, so I went for what was simply called "engine assembly lube" on the tube with no declaration of contents. It was some extremely gooey, green stuff. I made sure all the lubrication points were lubricated, but not excessively.

I know, I know, I shouldn't use just anything. I did an oil change soon after, though, so hopefully much of that nasty stuff is out again.

Thank you everyone for your help.
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