Clutch "Chudder" on a "New" bike? - SV1000 Portal
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 4th September 2019, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
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Clutch "Chudder" on a "New" bike?

As I posted in another thread, I recently snagged a K6 SV1S with only 69 original miles on it.

I've been riding it the past couple weeks and the one thing that gets to me every time I ride is this heavy vibration that occurs when accelerating even moderately from 3K-4K RPM or so. I haven't experienced such an annoying grumble on any similar v-twins (Honda Superhawk, Aprilias, etc).

I've made it a point to keep it a little higher in the rev range, but that's not always convenient in traffic, downtown, etc. A brief forum search suggests that I might be experiencing mild clutch basket "chudder", though I don't have any rattles at idle or anything (still low miles).

I see modded baskets available from WERKS in the U.S. (where I am located) and another company in the U.K. Not sure if one is better than the other?

I also see mentions of clutch swaps with later model bikes, such as in this thread: LINK

So, what is the general consensus on the best way to go about improving this characteristic? I'm becoming worried that this bike is going to nickel and dime me to death with proactive fixes to known issues!

Thanks!
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 4th September 2019, 03:54 PM
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Welcome!

Sounds like you may indeed have the clutch chuddar many others have experienced. I suggest you contact https://www.werksparts.comhttps://www.werksparts.com/ just as I did and have a conversation with Terry about the symptoms you’re having. If it makes sense, take the necessary steps to rebuild the clutch basket and enjoy your low mileage machine.

RealShelby / Werks clutch basket mod. It works great!
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 5th September 2019, 05:57 AM
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What 07 has suggested is gonna be the full fix for sure, but, in the mean-time, are you saying that this shuuder is on take up form stopped, as if the clutch is "hopping"

It is "possible" that the plates have become glazed and they are slipping....
Sitting around for so long with as little use as it has had, the clutch was not even bedded in at 69 miles.....

Remembering, that run-in oil from the factory is NOT synthetic in any normal sense of the word, but is actually pretty much a mineral oil.
If the run-in oil has been dumped as a precuation, and replaced with semi / full synthetic, then glazing is entirely possible

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 5th September 2019, 11:27 AM
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Clutch chudder is a vibration strongest in the 2500-4000 rpm range felt under acceleration or higher throttle blade openings ( like when pulling a hill when in this rpm range). Caused by a worn inner plate fit. Other vibrations can be and usually are present, caused mostly by an egg shaped main bearing ( soft aluminum ).

But there is simply no way a clutch basket with 69 miles on it is "chuddering". I know from experience that my modifications make a bike smoother than even a new stock basket, but it isn't all that much better ( the big difference is the modified basket stays in proper condition). So I will say swapping out baskets, or modifying that basket should not fix whatever you are feeling.

Even with a modified basket, there WILL be engine power pulses felt by the rider in the lower rpm range. These are the character of a V Twin engine. These power pulses are not anything like true chudder. They are not at all unpleasant and only felt when under acceleration in the lower rpms.

Normally when an owner contacts me and says they have chudder coming back or starting, I ask about chain and sprocket condition. It is amazing how many owners run around with front sprockets worn to a sharp point, chains with kinks and red dust around the joints. These problems act very much like chudder. The chain won't release off the front sprocket cleanly under load, so when it does it "pops" off and it feels just like chudder. Same with a frozen link.

Even though the bike is virtually new, could the chain have a couple frozen links from sitting around?


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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 5th September 2019, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
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The day I rode the bike home, the first thing I did was stop by a shop, swap tires and have them check over and lube the chain/sprockets, but I suppose anything is possible (stuck links, etc).

The feeling is similar to what I would consider "rough running" at those low RPMs, but it's not cutting out/missing and only occurs when accelerating briskly and it does seem most prominent in the RPM range you stated. I've had Buells, 2 Honda Superhawks and a pair of Aprilias with 1000cc V-Twins and none of them felt this clunky down low. Granted, none of them, aside from the Buells, liked to pull away strongly at very low RPM, but the bikes didn't shudder the way this one does either.

I know this is sort of a hybrid between a "new" bike due to low miles and an "old" one simply from sitting for so long.

I'm still on the "break-in" oil. Getting ready to swap that with fresh semi-synthetic and put a new filter on this weekend (just over 600 miles on the bike now).

I strongly doubt the clutch discs are glazed.

Maybe I just need to ride it some more

I *have* been wondering if ECU mapping could smooth that bottom end out some, as well...???
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 5th September 2019, 05:02 PM
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Have the throttle bodies been balanced? It an easy job to do yourself with a homemade tool.

It's also worth setting the TPS.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 5th September 2019, 08:24 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbaldsob View Post
Have the throttle bodies been balanced? It an easy job to do yourself with a homemade tool.

It's also worth setting the TPS.
No, I haven't sync'd the throttle bodies, but I certainly can. I have a Carbtune, so that *should* be relatively straightforward...right?

I'll take a look at the TPS, also. Thank you for the link!
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 6th September 2019, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masta' C View Post
No, I haven't sync'd the throttle bodies, but I certainly can. I have a Carbtune, so that *should* be relatively straightforward...right?
Yup! Odds are that it won't require any adjustment. My '06 with 844 miles on it didn't. But at least I could absolutely rule that out as a contributing factor to my bike's running issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masta' C View Post
I'll take a look at the TPS, also. Thank you for the link!
Anytime! Also probably not the cause of your bike's issues. It's another thing to completely rule out though and it sure does help driveability when opening the throttle when the engine is spinning less than about 2,000 RPM.


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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 6th September 2019, 09:02 PM
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We've had people come here complaining about the low rpm 'shudder'...and like RealShelby says...it's not the basket on such a low mile bike. Rather the 270-450 odd-firing pulsing that seems to be in synch with the clutch basket springing in the lower rev range.

Consider what's happening: The front cylinder hits the clutch with a 500cc pulse...followed 270 later by the rear doing the same. These impulses are stronger than even a 'Busa creates and the springs compress trying to absorb the hits. Then nothing happens for 450 degrees and during this time the springs are releasing their stored energy and just get mostly relaxed when the next hellish hit smacks them. You will feel this....and the SV being FI with Secondary Throttles makes it even more pronounced.

Carburetted engines normally will balk if you give them too much throttle at too low revs...not so the SV. It'll pull strongly WAY lower than is good for it and many of us have removed the STV's partly for this reason. You should not need the STV's to cover excessive throttle down too low and to be honest even when greatly leaned the SV will still pull down lower than is good for it without the STV's helping prevent over-carburetion.

Another source of low rpm grumbles is the BTL device. (Back Torque Limiting which should actually be called Forward Torque Increaser) The clutch springs aren't strong enough to hold the full throttle torque...and they chose this design to lighten the clutch pull...same as they did on the 'Busa (which shared much of the clutch), so they have a ramp affair on the center hub that slides against the basket when delivering power which in turn compresses the springs tighter. I absolutely HATED this thing!!!! It did vibrate a bit on mine and made a quick accurate launch just about impossible. If you're finding making U-turns or 90's like you know how to ride without lurching or nearly stalling...the BTL is your culprit.

Nice thing is Mike Schmidt (Schmidt314) discovered that the DL hub assembly replaces the SV's perfectly and removes all the problems. The springs (6 vs 5) are longer/stronger and the clutch works great with the DL hub installed. Smoother, less shudder and a couple pounds removed from the rotating mass...it's all good.

Most of us have found about 3000 the rock bottom for running revs...and this on smooth flat road without any need to accelerate. If you're just plunking along...this is fine, but if you might need some power....4000 is about the minimum for WFO to be more gentle on the chain/gears/clutch and isn't unreasonable for an engine with 11,000 redline. It's still a VERY tractable and forgiving motor that you'll no doubt come to love...like the rest of us.
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