Fork Spring Upgrade...DIY? + Setup Question - Page 2 - SV1000 Portal
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post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old 17th September 2019, 11:19 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by twag4 View Post
According to Race tech, stock spring rate is already .98 kg/mm. I would think the 1.0 would be better
Unfortunately, it's not an even comparison, because the stock spring is a progressive spring...VERY progressive. So, it's only around .98 kg/mm at the very end of its compression and a lot less at any length of travel before that. Kinda wish Race Tech didn't post a spec for this bike, as it skews the apparent benefit of moving to a proper linear-rate spring
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post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old 18th September 2019, 12:35 AM
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Well, dang...What oil would you recommend then?



I was going off the chart below. I went back and highlighted the factory Suzuki fluid in Red and the other options I had considered, including RaceTech's recommended fluid and the popular Red Line "Light" fluid.



Looking through past threads, it seemed there was a trend of erring on the lighter side of oil weights for these forks.



Also, would I be better with 0.95 kg/mm springs? I've had 1.0's in other bikes and liked them, but the valving was tailored to those springs in most cases. I do ride 2-up occasionally, but not often.



Any thoughts are appreciated!



Thanks!


To try and get some level of rebound control I use Redline Medium

-ms


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post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old 18th September 2019, 12:41 AM Thread Starter
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To try and get some level of rebound control I use Redline Medium

-ms
I appreciate that!

Any thoughts on spring rate...0.95 vs 1.00? Will 0.95 be noticeably more amenable to the factory valving?
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post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old 18th September 2019, 12:59 AM
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Well, dang...What oil would you recommend then?

I was going off the chart below......
Great information. Why in the world do fork oil manufacturers use generic 2.5 wt, 5 wt, 10 wt when those numbers mean so little? At the very least they should use both sets of numbers.

Question: How much difference must there be in cSt between 2 fork oils to notice a difference? Suzuki oil is 15.50. Is 15.90 close enough to be considered the same?
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post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old 18th September 2019, 01:53 AM Thread Starter
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Suzuki oil is 15.50. Is 15.90 close enough to be considered the same?
I would say "yes" on its face, because I strongly doubt anyone could tell the difference between those values at the specified temperature, but there's also the VI (Viscosity Index) to consider. The higher the VI, the more stable the oil is in its action across a wide temperature range, so higher VI (200+) is generally a good thing from my understanding.
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post #21 of 38 (permalink) Old 18th September 2019, 02:02 AM
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I would say "yes" on its face, because I strongly doubt anyone could tell the difference between those values at the specified temperature, but there's also the VI (Viscosity Index) to consider. The higher the VI, the more stable the oil is in its action across a wide temperature range, so higher VI (200+) is generally a good thing from my understanding.


I try and only run oils in modern forks and shocks that are as high as possible. In most cases 300+ VI.


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post #22 of 38 (permalink) Old 18th September 2019, 02:04 AM
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Great information. Why in the world do fork oil manufacturers use generic 2.5 wt, 5 wt, 10 wt when those numbers mean so little? At the very least they should use both sets of numbers.



Question: How much difference must there be in cSt between 2 fork oils to notice a difference? Suzuki oil is 15.50. Is 15.90 close enough to be considered the same?


Because it is a way of gauging oil, but only at elevated temperatures of 100C

Many high end suspension fluid folks do provide other flow data.
-ms


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post #23 of 38 (permalink) Old 18th September 2019, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by tzk321 View Post
Great information. Why in the world do fork oil manufacturers use generic 2.5 wt, 5 wt, 10 wt when those numbers mean so little? At the very least they should use both sets of numbers.



Question: How much difference must there be in cSt between 2 fork oils to notice a difference? Suzuki oil is 15.50. Is 15.90 close enough to be considered the same?


Many manufacturers specify 1 particular oil to use.
-ms


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post #24 of 38 (permalink) Old 18th September 2019, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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Mike,

You mentioned Red Line "Medium" fork oil.

I see that has a viscosity of 30.4 vs the factory fluid at 15.5. Can the stock '06 valving handle that viscosity reasonably well?

Another question...do you know if '03 cartridges will fit the '06 tubes? If I could do '03 cartridges, Race Tech springs and Gold Valves for ~$300, would that be worth the effort/cost?

I'm trying to avoid a GSXR fork upgrade for some reason, ha ha!!!
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post #25 of 38 (permalink) Old 18th September 2019, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Masta' C View Post
Unfortunately, it's not an even comparison, because the stock spring is a progressive spring...VERY progressive. So, it's only around .98 kg/mm at the very end of its compression and a lot less at any length of travel before that. Kinda wish Race Tech didn't post a spec for this bike, as it skews the apparent benefit of moving to a proper linear-rate spring
True info on the stock spring. I am no fan of progressive springs. this one works for me, but I’m only 175 lbs
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post #26 of 38 (permalink) Old 19th September 2019, 02:38 AM Thread Starter
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I just put this handy chart together to show the available "High VI" fork oils and shock fluids.

Oils with greater than 300 Viscosity Index are highlighted in green. As long as you pick the correct viscosity, I don't think you can go wrong with any of these.

Some experts say you don't really need a high VI oil for the forks, but you can often find these options for a similar price to the non-high VI oils, so why not?

Note: This was trimmed down from Peter Verdone's chart: http://www.peterverdone.com/suspension-fluids/
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File Type: jpg High VI Fork Oil Chart.jpg (269.2 KB, 5 views)
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post #27 of 38 (permalink) Old 19th September 2019, 03:43 AM
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I just put this handy chart together to show the available "High VI" fork oils and shock fluids.

Oils with greater than 300 Viscosity Index are highlighted in green. As long as you pick the correct viscosity, I don't think you can go wrong with any of these.

Some experts say you don't really need a high VI oil for the forks, but you can often find these options for a similar price to the non-high VI oils, so why not?

Note: This was trimmed down from a master list of dozens of fork oils.


I am assuming this is the Peter Verdone PVD data you are showing. If it is, please reference that as the source for this data.
http://www.peterverdone.com/suspension-fluids/

You can not just swap cartridges between forks.
-ms


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post #28 of 38 (permalink) Old 19th September 2019, 04:09 AM Thread Starter
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I am assuming this is the Peter Verdone PVD data you are showing. If it is, please reference that as the source for this data.
Added.
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post #29 of 38 (permalink) Old 19th September 2019, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
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Right now, I'm leaning toward the Spectro "Golden" products, which they rebrand for Race Tech.

Spectro has both a "Cartridge Fork Oil" and a "Shock Oil", both close to 26.5 [email protected], which is right between Red Line's "light" and "medium" weights. The only advertised difference between the the Spectro fluids is the VI, with the shock oil having a significantly higher VI.

I wrote them to inquire about specific differences, if any, and the viability of using the "shock" oil in the forks.

Interestingly, they used to sell a combo shock/fork oil that was relatively high VI, so we'll see what they say.
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post #30 of 38 (permalink) Old 19th September 2019, 04:14 PM
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Right now, I'm leaning toward the Spectro "Golden" products, which they rebrand for Race Tech.

Spectro has both a "Cartridge Fork Oil" and a "Shock Oil", both close to 26.5 [email protected], which is right between Red Line's "light" and "medium" weights. The only advertised difference between the the Spectro fluids is the VI, with the shock oil having a significantly higher VI.

I wrote them to inquire about specific differences, if any, and the viability of using the "shock" oil in the forks.

Interestingly, they used to sell a combo shock/fork oil that was relatively high VI, so we'll see what they say.


I thought Motorex did the Racetech oil?
-ms


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