Charging system - I'm at a loss! - SV1000 Portal
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 6th September 2020, 06:12 AM Thread Starter
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Charging system - I'm at a loss!

Hi all,

Looking for some ideas on where to look next on my 2003 SV1000 charging system.

I replaced the rotor after the infamous magnet failure and put a new stator in while I was there as the loose magnets had pretty much wrecked the old one. I put everything back together and all seemed well. Then after a few shake down runs I noticed the starter getting weaker and had to charge the battery.

I measured the charge input at the battery and was only getting about 12.5v at idle and holding the revs at around 5000 it would slowly slime to about 13.2 after a minute or so but that was it. I then found the four wire plug on the reg/rec was all melted and burnt and assumed that would be the culprit.

Replaced the burnt plug with a four pin deutsch style plug and measured the charge again and it was still low. At this stage I assumed the reg/rec was bad so bought a used reg/rec from a bike wrecker. Changed the four pin plug to a deutsch plug and fitted it today. Measured the charge input and, you guessed it - still the bloody same low readings. My SV650 that's parked next to it gives about 13.5v at idle and goes up to about 14.5v instantly with a few revs.

Any ideas before I throw this bike into the ocean from a very high cliff?
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 6th September 2020, 08:43 AM
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Hey there far north banana bender...

Unplug that stator plug and check for on open connection between each wire....yes, a connection.... and then from each wire to ground....
There should be NO ground to earth......

So, if there is no connection between the wires...its stuffed....if there is a ground to earth form any wire, its stuffed....

If that is all good, check the voltage coming form each wire....it is AC, so set your meter that way...... it has to be 75vac or above from each..... if not, its stuffed....i cant remember where to earth for that test now...haha....

Other than that, your rectifier is possibly toast.....

And after that, have you checked your stator magnets ?

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 6th September 2020, 10:10 AM Thread Starter
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Hi ML,

Mate this is what has me stuffed. Brand new genuine rotor with the magnets epoxyed before it went in, brand new stator and I'm getting about 80-85 volts out of each phase. Brand new battery. Tested the reg/rec with a multimeter and I'm getting constant numbers (i.e. 500 and 0) in the respective directions.

Going to check the main battery earth tomorrow in case it's not making a good contact. Did a few ground checks with the meter though and I was getting good grounds on the engine and frame bolts etc.

My Harley's older than this thing and has three times the mileage and apart from servicing I never have to touch it. This SV seems to demand more attention than the bloody Kardashians!
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 6th September 2020, 11:05 AM
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Have you got access to another reg/rec ? I know what you are getting as readings is good, but, electricals are bloody spooky...

Earthing is one thing that you are chasing, but, have you checked for current draw with the ignition off ?
There may be a parasitic drain that is gouging the charge rate...

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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 6th September 2020, 02:44 PM
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A new stator does NOT guarantee a good stator.

Have you gone back in there and checked the rotor or stator? IF I had found a burned connection, I would want to look inside the magneto cover again.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 7th September 2020, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missing Link View Post
Have you got access to another reg/rec ? I know what you are getting as readings is good, but, electricals are bloody spooky...

Earthing is one thing that you are chasing, but, have you checked for current draw with the ignition off ?
There may be a parasitic drain that is gouging the charge rate...
Thanks ML. I replaced the original reg/rec with another genuine one that I tested with the multi meter as being fine. No change.

No battery drain when tested with the multimeter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by realshelby View Post
A new stator does NOT guarantee a good stator.

Have you gone back in there and checked the rotor or stator? IF I had found a burned connection, I would want to look inside the magneto cover again.
Thanks RS. I can't see any benefit in dismantling everything to look at it when the stator is pumping out 85+ volts on each phase at 5000 rpm. Obviously that side of things is working fine and the problem lies elsewhere.

Gents I'm getting good grounds but will double check the main ones next weekend. Another thing I'll try is to take the original reg/rec that I replaced and test it on the 650. It would be odd to have two bad ones but stranger things have happened I guess!
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 7th September 2020, 12:57 PM
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If each phase is making 75+ volts...then there's nothing wrong with stator or magnets. Not much else left but the RR is there? Mine doesn't charge well at idle when warm...especially when the headlamps are lit being they pull most of what's available and when turned off the charging bumps right up to the regulated limit. The regulator being out along the jug is good for airflow when moving, but poor for heating when sitting still and I believe they have a temperature sensitivity that lowers the charging when hot.

You are using the stock SCR regulators...yes? I switched to Mosfet RR and it does run much cooler but still the idle when hot voltage isn't great with the lights on...especially when the fan kicks on it's running mostly on the battery so a good mod is the switchable light relay kit from Eastern Beaver so you can shut them off when desired. Remember the charging system is designed to keep the battery from discharging and not really intended to charge it when low...so a battery tender while sitting a good thing. LED headlamps pull a ton less amps and you'd see better idle charging with them....or shut off the lights. Seriously...a volt meter permanently installed along with the light switch a very good thing if the charging system should take a dump on you while out on the road *during daylight obviously*. Shutting off the lights gives the battery a chance to run the fuel pump and ignition a LOT longer before going flat which might save you some pushing or a tow.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 7th September 2020, 08:04 PM
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Actually a stator can show proper A/C voltage and still be faulty. That is why the test for a short is important too. Under load, and under higher temperature things can change.......


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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 8th September 2020, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozpacman View Post
Hi all,

Looking for some ideas on where to look next on my 2003 SV1000 charging system.

I replaced the rotor after the infamous magnet failure and put a new stator in while I was there as the loose magnets had pretty much wrecked the old one. I put everything back together and all seemed well. Then after a few shake down runs I noticed the starter getting weaker and had to charge the battery.

I measured the charge input at the battery and was only getting about 12.5v at idle and holding the revs at around 5000 it would slowly slime to about 13.2 after a minute or so but that was it. I then found the four wire plug on the reg/rec was all melted and burnt and assumed that would be the culprit.

Replaced the burnt plug with a four pin deutsch style plug and measured the charge again and it was still low. At this stage I assumed the reg/rec was bad so bought a used reg/rec from a bike wrecker. Changed the four pin plug to a deutsch plug and fitted it today. Measured the charge input and, you guessed it - still the bloody same low readings. My SV650 that's parked next to it gives about 13.5v at idle and goes up to about 14.5v instantly with a few revs.

Any ideas before I throw this bike into the ocean from a very high cliff?
I'm having the same low readings you're talking about. I understand the frustration! To add insult to injury I just had my bike at the shop and they claimed the charging was fine!
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 9th September 2020, 09:20 AM Thread Starter
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Hi RC. That's very interesting!

I'm trying to work out if this issue has been caused by something I may have done or neglected to do when I replaced the rotor and stator. Just as a matter of interest, had you done any recent work on your charging system prior to discovering the low charging issue?
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 9th September 2020, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realshelby View Post
Actually a stator can show proper A/C voltage and still be faulty. That is why the test for a short is important too. Under load, and under higher temperature things can change.......
I've measured my stator output several times including from stone cold realshelby, and I'm getting a healthy 85+ volts each time. What has me stumped is that I'm getting such a low charge rate despite those good numbers.
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 9th September 2020, 12:30 PM
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Well, I have mentioned that if it were me I would pull the magneto cover, again, and see if anything is not like it should be. Magnets and stator.

Because, to me, 85 VAC is too high. Maybe I just have not seen one that high, but about 80 VAC is as much as I see when helping owners with these things.

Going back to your first post....you state a 4 wire connector from the stator was burned? There are 3 wires from the stator, should be a 3 wire connector? There is another connector for the crankshaft position sensor with two wires.

You also mention "replaced the rotor". Was that a new OEM unit? Or a used replacement? If used, it could explain the charging problem and the higher VAC reading ( magnets bunched together can show a higher peak VAC. This is why that can fry stators ).

Again, it may be a waste of time. But if it were me, I would pull the magneto cover to inspect everything. I would test each of the three stator legs across an ohmmeter to ground looking for any sign of current ( fail test ). Look on front and back of stator for dark spots indication burned insulation ( new or not, they can fail right out of the box). Make SURE there is an equal gap between ALL magnets.....


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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 9th September 2020, 09:32 PM
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Before i swapped my old rotor for a JB Welded one, it was giving 83vac on all three wires all the time..... so there "shouldn't" have been an issue, but as realshelby says, maybe that was cooking stuff...

The 4 wire connector you are referring too....is that under the airbox ? cause if it is, thats the reg/rec plug.....one of them at elast, the other is a 3 wire unit.....

The 3 and 2 wire ones realshelby has mentioned are under the left side of the rear tail covers, just near the battery, but on the outside of the frame rail....

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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 19th September 2020, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozpacman View Post
Hi RC. That's very interesting!

I'm trying to work out if this issue has been caused by something I may have done or neglected to do when I replaced the rotor and stator. Just as a matter of interest, had you done any recent work on your charging system prior to discovering the low charging issue?
Hey there, ozpacman. Nope, I had not done any work to it prior to this. But it looks like there is work to be done now for sure! Good luck and let us know how it pans out for you. We've got some good guys in this thread to bounce ideas off of.
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