My own race track brake pad shoot out - SV1000 Portal
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post #1 of 89 (permalink) Old 25th July 2007, 08:25 PM Thread Starter
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My own race track brake pad shoot out

I figured I would post some results of a full day of brake pads testing on my race bike the other day. I have found my new brake pads!!!


Test bike
Highly modified 06 SV1000 Superbike

Test conditions
Track day at Porltand International Raceway. 20 minute full race pace practice sessions. Brakes were run either one or two sessions then swapped.

The brake system
Brembo radial 19X20 master, Galfer Superbike Brake line kit, Kawasaki ZX10R Calipers (4 pads per caliper), Galfer Wave Rotors.

Brake pads being tested
EBC HH
Performance Friction Compound 95
OEM
Vesrah Super RJL 17
Galfer HH Race

Notes: Take my evaluation here as my opinion only. These tests were performed at race speeds. I have used some of these pads before on street bike applications and have very different impressions. When I came in after a session I put the bike on the stands and spun the front wheel to check for pad drag when hot. Not all of these pads are considered race spec pads, but this was the only way I could pound on them and compare them back to back.




EBC HH (Non GFA)
These have been the brakes of choice for me for the past 2 seasons. So this is the starting bench mark for the test. Great initial bike and good feel at the lever for moderately hard braking. Under really hard loads I would keep squeezing but it did not feel like the brakes were responding (One reason for the testing). Really noisy brakes, they would screech when the lever was mashed and they sounded like horns honking pulling back into the pits and stopping. The front wheel drag when hot or cold for that matter was really really bad. This was also one of my reasons for doing the testing, I have recent had really bad issues with the EBCs dragging like this. I did not check for backing plates for warpage, but this is the rumor with EBC pads I have been hearing. The bike did handle slightly different when other pads were installed, I am assuming it was due to the front end brake drag? I like them on the street but the race track performance was very poor overall after running the other pads tested here.

Performance Friction Compound 95
These brakes had a really unique feel. They had good initial bite (This surprised me for not being a sintered type pad), a bit more than the Galfers, and a bit less than the EBC HH. Absolutely amazing feedback at the lever and the all out stopping power was really good. They had a very linear feel with amazingly good control under exceptionally hard braking. They were strangely quiet under really hard loads. These were confidence inspiring brakes and really awesome to use mid corner. When full hot there was almost 0 drag on the front wheel when spun by hand.

OEM
Most people chuck these pads. I have used these pads to race on some and liked them but the street performance does seem not be as good as other pads. They tend to get a bad rap I think because the initial bite is very low. These pads of all the pads tested had the least amount of initial bite. It freaked me out when I was on the warm up/scuff in lap because they just did not seem like they were going to work at all and that I might have to put my feet out to help the bike slow down. Once you squeeze down and put good some lever pressure on them they start to dig in very nicely. They have good all out stopping power and immediately release when you let off the lever. They do improve with heat no doubt. Very controllable linear feel but it did take a bit more lever pressure than others. Because they have hardly any initial bite they are excellent for mid corner braking. Several times mid corner I would use them and these pads did not upset the chassis one little bit. These pads had the least amount of drag on the wheel when hot.

Vesrah Super RJL 17
This was my first time ever on these. I was completely blown away. These pads had great initial bite and by far the best all out stopping power. I have never felt anything quite like it. I had new found confidence like never before and immediately was able to brake later than I ever had before. They are very sensitive to lever inputs so they take a bit to get used to. I rode them for a second session to be able to get tuned into them a bit because they were so disturbingly good. These pads force you to be ultra smooth blipping the throttle and down shifting entering a corner. Every pull of the lever, on every lap I was not believing the performance. A couple of time I came in hotter than I ever have thinking I was going to run off into the weeds. I just squeezed down a bit more, relaxed and turned the thing in. Any other pads I would have been off I am pretty sure. They will definitely give you confidence to run deeper. They had very little drag on the wheel when full hot. These things cost big $$ but they are worth every penny.

GALFER HH Race
I had used these before and had an idea of what to expect. They have a bit less initial bite than the EBCs and about the same all out stopping power as the OEMs. These were a great combo of several of the pads I tested. I think they definitely gained performance and feel when hot. These are manufactured with about 1mm more friction material that all the other pads I had. A little bit of wheel drag when hot. Good all around pad.



Well, hands down the Vesrah SRJL 17 pads are the winner for me and the race bike. By putting these pads in, I simply was running better laps times immediately. They are really expensive, even more so since they are the four pad per caliper units, but they are worth it. If you want brakes these are simply amazing feats of engineering.

Here is my final ordering

1. Vesrah SRJL 17 Not even a close competitor in my opinion.
2. Performance Friction Compound 95 Awesome pads, I would race any day on these if Vesrahs were not available
3. OEM and Galfer tie for 3rd. They are quite different in feel but both are solid pads. Both are raceable pads but not to my liking.
4. Last by far in my testing were the EBC HH. I was kind of bummed they performed so poorly when compared to the others tested. I will no longer consider these pads for any of my, or other race machines I prepare.
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post #2 of 89 (permalink) Old 25th July 2007, 09:01 PM
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Fantastic post schmidt314! It is these type of informed, first-hand experience posts that make the Internet useful. Sadly for every one post like yours, there are usually 200 "I know pad X is totally sweet, and pad Y is crap, because I know) kind of posts.

I am curious, were you running the EBCs when you had your GSXR caliper/boiling brake fluid issues? Do you think they maybe just absorb and transmit too much heat?

I am running OEM pads from an 05 GSXR on my SV with GSXR fork/caliper swap, and I agree that while initial bite isn't all that impressive, they definitely have good overall power, and seems pretty resistant to fade on the track.

I am worried about the dreaded overheat though, and I am curous to know if you think that the EBCs may have played a part.

Thanks again!

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post #3 of 89 (permalink) Old 25th July 2007, 09:03 PM
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Agree with your review Vesrah rock.

If you love your bike let it go ,if it comes back you highsided.
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post #4 of 89 (permalink) Old 25th July 2007, 09:09 PM
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I'm having issues with the brakes on my ZX7R at the mo I have EBCs in them and have bad drag on the wheel even when cold the lever travel is twice what I would like even though I have bled them with a vacume bleeder


No test on Carbone Lorraine pads or ferrodo ? Maybe in the next installment

Good write up mate

Boy you were going Fast!!!
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when I came past you!!!!
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post #5 of 89 (permalink) Old 25th July 2007, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwy84 View Post
Fantastic post schmidt314! It is these type of informed, first-hand experience posts that make the Internet useful. Sadly for every one post like yours, there are usually 200 "I know pad X is totally sweet, and pad Y is crap, because I know) kind of posts.

I am curious, were you running the EBCs when you had your GSXR caliper/boiling brake fluid issues? Do you think they maybe just absorb and transmit too much heat?

I am running OEM pads from an 05 GSXR on my SV with GSXR fork/caliper swap, and I agree that while initial bite isn't all that impressive, they definitely have good overall power, and seems pretty resistant to fade on the track.

I am worried about the dreaded overheat though, and I am curous to know if you think that the EBCs may have played a part.

Thanks again!
When I was having brake issues I had used OEM and EBC pads trying a few obvious things first. I pretty much had the fade issue fixed by swapping out a set of stainless steel brake pistons from OEM SV1000 calipers to the radial mount units. I then also put back the thin metal backing plates and the issue went away. I do think that the EBCs may have aggravated the issue a bit but did not appear to be the root cause.

-MS


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post #6 of 89 (permalink) Old 25th July 2007, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by svtrev View Post
I'm having issues with the brakes on my ZX7R at the mo I have EBCs in them and have bad drag on the wheel even when cold the lever travel is twice what I would like even though I have bled them with a vacume bleeder


No test on Carbone Lorraine pads or ferrodo ? Maybe in the next installment

Good write up mate
From my understanding the latest non sintered Ferrodo are much like the Performance Frictions. Not sure about the Carbone Lorraines though. I spent a bunch of money on pads and figure I needed tire and fuel money to actually test what I already had.

I think the drag of the EBCs pads aggravate the issue because the brakes can never quite cool off if they drag. I rarely use a vacuum bleeder unless the whole system is dry. I usually do it by hand, and tend to get better results. One thing I have always found useful in bleeding brakes if they are problematic is to take the calipers off the forks and pump the pistons most of the way out and push them back in by hand. This tends to help get tiny bits of trapped air out if performed a couple of times. Then mount them back up and hand bleed each side once or twice. You might just get a tiny bubble out of one side. This has worked for me several times now, so I am just in a habit of doing it most the time now.

-MS


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post #7 of 89 (permalink) Old 25th July 2007, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svtrev View Post
I'm having issues with the brakes on my ZX7R at the mo I have EBCs in them and have bad drag on the wheel even when cold the lever travel is twice what I would like even though I have bled them with a vacume bleeder
I can't see how a pad would effect the lever travel when cold...

I've seen calipers (on a cheap Korean bike) where the brake pistons would retract by as much as 2mm after releasing the lever. Of course one used half the lever travel just for those 2mm. We couldn't find the cause for that, so we just replaced the calipers by a GSX-R 6-pot unit.

I also don't think vacuume bleeders do a good job - they help you get started faster, but I always end it the 'old' way.
Quote:
No test on Carbone Lorraine pads or ferrodo ? Maybe in the next installment
I was very impressed with AP Racing pads, so if there will be a next test, inlcude those too...

Quote:
Good write up mate
+1

D.
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post #8 of 89 (permalink) Old 25th July 2007, 09:39 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by danci1973 View Post

I was very impressed with AP Racing pads, so if there will be a next test, inlcude those too...


+1

D.
Send me any set of pads for my ZX10 calipers and I would gladly test them !!!!

-MS


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post #9 of 89 (permalink) Old 25th July 2007, 09:45 PM
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Send me any set of pads for my ZX10 calipers and I would gladly test them !!!!

-MS
I was actually thinking about that - but shipping would probably cost way more then pads...

D.
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post #10 of 89 (permalink) Old 25th July 2007, 09:46 PM
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Where do you get the RJL's for the SV1000S? I see them in the Dennis Kirk catalog for a SV650S for $56.99 a caliper!

I tried to find the EBC HH GFA pads and they said for racing only! Couldn't find any, price or otherwise...

Thanks for the information!
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post #11 of 89 (permalink) Old 25th July 2007, 09:46 PM
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Good report especially if your doing track days.

Are brake pads like tires where a good track or race tire would be no good on the street as it doesn't heat up enough. or carbon discs which only work well when they're red hot...or so i'm told.

For what it's worth, the best brake set up I've ever come across was the Brembo cast iron discs on my old 1978 Moto guzzi T3..my old and fuzzy memory, distored over time, tells me that they would piss over the SV's brakes even now.

Pete !!





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post #12 of 89 (permalink) Old 25th July 2007, 09:50 PM
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Good report especially if your doing track days.

Are brake pads like tires where a good track or race tire would be no good on the street as it doesn't heat up enough. or carbon discs which only work well when they're red hot...or so i'm told.

Pete !!
Brake pads do have different optimum operating temps so track pads do not work well on the street and vice versa. Track pads work at much higher temperature and need hard use to work at their best. No good for me then!!

Did you have had track pads fitted when you went through the hedge, I cant beleive it could have been your fault

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post #13 of 89 (permalink) Old 25th July 2007, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
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Where do you get the RJL's for the SV1000S? I see them in the Dennis Kirk catalog for a SV650S for $56.99 a pair!

Thanks for the information!
The pads I used are SRJL 17. There are also RJL and JL pads. The SRJL 17 pads I got from a friend on one of our race deals for an edurance bike I set up. SRJL 17 are quite a bit more than the RJL pads and are really expensive for the 4 pad calipers. Try here http://www.racersupply.com/productsBrakes.asp These guys want $190 + shipping for the pads I used! ALso remember that the same pad for the stock SV caliper also fit a bunch of just pre radial GSX-Rs I believe so if they do not list them for the SV try a GSX-R. Down load the EBC catalog and look up the application chart for FA158HH pads and see what other bikes they fit.

-MS


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post #14 of 89 (permalink) Old 25th July 2007, 09:57 PM Thread Starter
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I was actually thinking about that - but shipping would probably cost way more then pads...

D.
I have shipped stuff about like brake pads to Europe for about $10!


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post #15 of 89 (permalink) Old 25th July 2007, 09:57 PM
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Great break pad review. I read somewhere a quote from Kevin Schwantz that goes something like "I can only go as fast as how well I can brake."


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