Setting cam lobe centers without adjustable gear sets - Page 3 - SV1000 Portal
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post #31 of 58 (permalink) Old 19th January 2016, 01:15 AM Thread Starter
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Well that was a hair-raising, gut-wrenching experience!! I'm done measuring the lobe centers on the rear cylinder.... and managed to drop a 2 mm pin from the dial gauge inside the cylinder head in the process. 2 hours (which seemed like 2 years) later I fished it out with a magnet.



Here are the measurements for rear cylinder (I double-, triple-, and quadruple-checked: results are repeatable)



Intake opens at 3.5 degrees BTDC, closes at 50 degrees ABDC

Exhaust opens at 40 degrees BBDC, closes at 12 degrees ATDC





This gives me a 113,25 degree lobe center for the intake and a 104 for the exhaust.



To my untrained, stressed-out eye, this seems like a long stretch from your base values!! Is it? Or do the results seem plausible?



Advancing 1 tooth would give me the best results, it seems, taking me to 107,59 and 109.66 respectively...



Tomorrow I'm planning to advance the rear idler gear before moving on to measuring the front cylinder... unless for any reason you think I shouldn't (?!?)

What year is your bike?
I will check a couple things on my end and see what I come up with.
-ms


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post #32 of 58 (permalink) Old 19th January 2016, 08:36 AM
coz
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It's a 2003 model
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post #33 of 58 (permalink) Old 19th January 2016, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
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It's a 2003 model
Your data is pretty much exactly what I have for 03/04 bikes.

There are a couple of combinations, but the one tooth tooth result looks good. I would always put emphasis on the intake cam over the exhaust.

-MS


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post #34 of 58 (permalink) Old 19th January 2016, 10:11 AM
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Pheeeew, that's a huge load off my mind!!! I'll do the idler advance on the rear cylinder before I start measuring the front... the tensioner is a real bitch to get to. I also just read on the manual that rear tensioner needs a new spring, washer and bolt every time you reinstall it. I already got them new gaskets, might as well go by the book and try to find a new spring at least!

Do you think another idler setting would be better ??
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post #35 of 58 (permalink) Old 19th January 2016, 11:21 PM Thread Starter
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Pheeeew, that's a huge load off my mind!!! I'll do the idler advance on the rear cylinder before I start measuring the front... the tensioner is a real bitch to get to. I also just read on the manual that rear tensioner needs a new spring, washer and bolt every time you reinstall it. I already got them new gaskets, might as well go by the book and try to find a new spring at least!

Do you think another idler setting would be better ??
I think my choice would be to retard the gear 2 teeth and hit the 107/110 combo

To be honest in most cases I rarely replace the spring on the rear or the crush washer seal.

-MS


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post #36 of 58 (permalink) Old 21st January 2016, 05:35 PM
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Well, after lots and lots of drama (managed to un-hook the cam chain from the lower idle gear, amongst others), after advancing the front idler gear 1 tooth and retarding the back 2 teeth, after measuring, re-measuring and triple-checking, here are the results:

Front Cylinder:

Intake lobe center: 106.25
Exhaust lobe center: 108.9


Back Cylinder:

Intake lobe center: 105.5
Exhaust lobe center: 111.25



So, front cylinder is right on the money!!!

The back one, not so much. I was expecting 107.02 for the intake and 110.23 for the exhaust... Probably botched up the measurements?? I don't think it's me unhooking the cam chain, I didn't move the rotor and I had painted both the cam chain and the idler gear so I knew exactly how to restore them to their original position. What do you think?? Should I stick with what I have now, or go for 3 teeth advance which should give me 106.07 for the intake and 110.68 for the exhaust??
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post #37 of 58 (permalink) Old 21st January 2016, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by coz View Post
Well, after lots and lots of drama (managed to un-hook the cam chain from the lower idle gear, amongst others), after advancing the front idler gear 1 tooth and retarding the back 2 teeth, after measuring, re-measuring and triple-checking, here are the results:

Front Cylinder:

Intake lobe center: 106.25
Exhaust lobe center: 108.9


Back Cylinder:

Intake lobe center: 105.5
Exhaust lobe center: 111.25



So, front cylinder is right on the money!!!

The back one, not so much. I was expecting 107.02 for the intake and 110.23 for the exhaust... Probably botched up the measurements?? I don't think it's me unhooking the cam chain, I didn't move the rotor and I had painted both the cam chain and the idler gear so I knew exactly how to restore them to their original position. What do you think?? Should I stick with what I have now, or go for 3 teeth advance which should give me 106.07 for the intake and 110.68 for the exhaust??
One check of your measurements is to do the following
LSA of the original measurements is 108.625 degrees
LSA of the current measurements is 108.375 degrees
This tells measurements are consistent so measurements are likely correct.



It does seem strange. I went through a few things there is a possible senario. Is there any chance that the rear gear was installed incorrectly? I say this because I have seen people install them incorrectly many times. I have seen people install the front gear, then rotate motor to install the rear gear. This is for the cams not the gears. Front and rear gears go in at the same crank position.

If I take your current numbers, install the gear the gear 180 out and then retard two teeth I get your original values.

-MS


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post #38 of 58 (permalink) Old 21st January 2016, 10:08 PM
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Yes, now that you mention it this could well be what I did. So what happens now? Do we like the 105.5 / 111.25 degree outcome, or should I go with the 3 teeth advance from the current position which will produce 106.07 / 110.68 ????


Thanks so much for guiding me through this!!!
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post #39 of 58 (permalink) Old 22nd January 2016, 12:18 AM Thread Starter
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Yes, now that you mention it this could well be what I did. So what happens now? Do we like the 105.5 / 111.25 degree outcome, or should I go with the 3 teeth advance from the current position which will produce 106.07 / 110.68 ????





Thanks so much for guiding me through this!!!

To be honest, I would run it as is.
-ms


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post #40 of 58 (permalink) Old 22nd January 2016, 11:25 AM
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Well, I went ahead and reset the idler gear in its correct initial position, then advanced it one tooth.

Result!!

rear cylinder intake: 106
rear cylinder exhaust: 110.75

front cylinder intake: 106.25
front cylinder exhaust: 108.75

I'm going to do a full write-up of the experience / procedure with pictures as soon as I've put the bike together.
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post #41 of 58 (permalink) Old 22nd January 2016, 09:21 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by coz View Post
Well, I went ahead and reset the idler gear in its correct initial position, then advanced it one tooth.

Result!!

rear cylinder intake: 106
rear cylinder exhaust: 110.75

front cylinder intake: 106.25
front cylinder exhaust: 108.75

I'm going to do a full write-up of the experience / procedure with pictures as soon as I've put the bike together.
It is really awesome to see the math all works out as expected. Even me figuring that the gear was in 180 out shows it works!

-MS


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post #42 of 58 (permalink) Old 23rd January 2016, 01:02 AM
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You figuring out how exactly I screwed up shows you're a top mechanic and a fookin' genius, that's what it shows!!! Thanks for selflessly putting up with my newbie-greenhorn-tenderfoot stupid questions. Now that I've completed the procedure it all seems like a piece of cake, but I've had some serious panic attack moments.

Tomorrow I'll finish putting 'er back together, balance the throttle bodies and finally TPS adjustment. Hopefully take it for a spin Sunday or Monday at the latest. I'll report back after my first impression. Fingers crossed!!




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post #43 of 58 (permalink) Old 24th January 2016, 04:13 PM
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Well, I took it for a ride and OMG !!!!!! It pulls like a train!!! 2nd gear power-wheelies!! Considerable difference in the 4000 - 8000 rpm range. Elsewhere there are dips in power but it is definitely linked to fueling: my current PCV maps are essentially useless after the mod. I downloaded map 20-041-515 from Powercommander Products, labeled as "2005-2007 SV 1000 European model, Carbon Can Company slip-on exhaust, stock or aftermarket filter, intake snorkel removed from airbox", and it's a significant improvement... but I am sure there is untapped potential here!

Looks like next buy will be an AutoTune :-D

Again, Mr. Schmidt, what an excellent mod!!!

Thanks a million!!!

Now, do you happen to have any PC maps for this mod lying around???

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post #44 of 58 (permalink) Old 15th October 2018, 08:02 PM
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Hi anyone have that right up on the SV cam degreeing with verniers
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post #45 of 58 (permalink) Old 15th October 2018, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
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Hi anyone have that right up on the SV cam degreeing with verniers


PM sent.
-ms


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