Front wheel spindle removal. - SV1000 Portal
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 22nd September 2019, 09:10 AM Thread Starter
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Front wheel spindle removal.

Hi folks, would someone please be kind enough to tell me what they use to knock out the front wheel spindle ? Loosened the pinch bolts both sides last night, and also the hex spindle end, then tried to knock it out from the clutch side to no avail. Didn't wish to be too brutal but didn't have much laying around that was of use at the time. Had my foot underneath, jiggling the wheel but that didn't help either.

Thank you.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 22nd September 2019, 12:58 PM
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Something like this would be ideal.

https://www.toolfetch.com/tool-aid-1...t-pin-set.html

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 23rd September 2019, 04:25 AM
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By spindle, do you mean the short shouldered pacer tube, or the axle itself...??

The axle screws into that spacer tube, so the spacer picnh bolts need to be tight to stop it spinning while the axle is undone...

If the spacer is not coming out wit the pinch bolts undone, then, it will need a tap or two to make it move....

I might no' be a smart man Jenny....but i can pain' ma copper colored bike a dif'ren color.....
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 23rd September 2019, 03:22 PM
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after unscrewing the axle until it stops backing out any more, I lift up on the front wheel some while pushing the axle through with a drift. with the weight of the front wheel pulling down on the axle, it isn't very easy to pull out.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 27th September 2019, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks to all who've replied. I still have a fork bounce when coming to a stop. Changed pads and the discs look ok but I'll get a man to rebalance the wheel and fit new bearings soon. He'll no doubt have a drift of some kind to knock out the spindle. Can't recall what he used when fitting a tyre for me last time. I'll be dead before I wear out this bike !

Regards to all of you from me in Wales.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 30th September 2019, 02:14 AM
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What do you mean by "bounce" ?

Do you mean that when you come to a stop, the front of the bike "bounces" back up quite quickly ?

If thats the case, the rebound damper (the little screw in the top of the fork cap) controls that....
Turn it in 1/4 of a turn on both legs and see if that helps.....just as a stop gap for now.....

If its a thumping/tapping noise of feeling, then it may be the forks needed servicing.......

But for now do the next stuff when you can

Get some physical help/advice on setting up your spring preloads to suit your weight.

Then, set the rebound and comp damping adjustments to the stock positions and then work on getting them set to
suit your riding style......

Read up on what each damping adjustment does, and experiment with them, ONE AT A TIME....

Never adjust two things at once, you will feel what you have done better.....and ride with that chnage for a little while, until you are comfortable with what that feels like, then make a change to another adjustment, dependant on what it is you feel is happening.....
And remember, on bikes, quite often, the tail wags the dog.....what you think is the front end, is actually the rear end transferring a feeling through the bike.....

Have fun, it can be frustrating sometimes chasing an adjustment, but it is so rewarding when it all gels
Matheneyr3 likes this.

I might no' be a smart man Jenny....but i can pain' ma copper colored bike a dif'ren color.....
.
.
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Repainted Ford PE (Petroleum Mica)
Yoshi 2:1 collectors and Arrow titanium can...
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 1st October 2019, 02:25 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missing Link View Post
What do you mean by "bounce" ?

Do you mean that when you come to a stop, the front of the bike "bounces" back up quite quickly ?

If thats the case, the rebound damper (the little screw in the top of the fork cap) controls that....
Turn it in 1/4 of a turn on both legs and see if that helps.....just as a stop gap for now.....

If its a thumping/tapping noise of feeling, then it may be the forks needed servicing.......

But for now do the next stuff when you can

Get some physical help/advice on setting up your spring preloads to suit your weight.

Then, set the rebound and comp damping adjustments to the stock positions and then work on getting them set to
suit your riding style......

Read up on what each damping adjustment does, and experiment with them, ONE AT A TIME....

Never adjust two things at once, you will feel what you have done better.....and ride with that chnage for a little while, until you are comfortable with what that feels like, then make a change to another adjustment, dependant on what it is you feel is happening.....
And remember, on bikes, quite often, the tail wags the dog.....what you think is the front end, is actually the rear end transferring a feeling through the bike.....

Have fun, it can be frustrating sometimes chasing an adjustment, but it is so rewarding when it all gels
Hello, no, it isn't the suspension settings. That's been fine for a long time. The rear shock's been resprung for my weight, the oil in the forks recently changed and new brake caliper seals too. What I meant was that when I pull to a stop, the front end is bobbing up and down, as though there's disc warpage, but the issue's exactly the same after having a new set of discs previously. Two shops have failed to cure the problem and I've tried everything I can think of, barring new wheel bearings, which should arrive tomorrow. There's no brake fluid leakage, in actual fact the brakes are extremely strong, with braided lines fitted. It's a very strange and annoying issue that's been going on for a long time but I'm hoping that a guy I know, who's a bike fanatic garage owner and has about 15 bikes of his own will be able to get to the bottom of it sometime this week. The handling is otherwise excellent but the bike's a real pain to ride when needing to go slow in traffic. I feel no pumping through the brake lever at all, just feel like a nodding dog when pulling to a halt !
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 1st October 2019, 04:45 AM
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Yuck !!

If the discs and pads have been changed, and there are NO pollutants on the discs to cause a momentary "slip" (which is like a high spot or warp, but without the pulse) and you really believe it is NOT the brakes themselves doing it, then it would seem that maybe you have a fork damping issue maybe??

The wheel bearings would have to be on the point of disintergrating to cause anything like this....so damping is the next.

Set the front springs to standard (owners manual) settings (record our currrent settings first) and do the same with the rebound and comp damping (record what you have it set at before setting it to standard) .
Take it for a ride to gauge the "bounce" ....then tighten (clockwise) the rebound damping a full turn (this is extreme) and then see how it feels. If the sensation continues, to the same with the compression damping...

If the problem dropped away with either or both of these changes, that will give you some clues as to if it is the forks doing it.

It may be that you just need to do some minor adjustments of those dampers, (one at a time) and tune it out, or, there may be something deeper.
This may require a look at the oil height in the forks, it may be too low, leaving a huge air gap which is like a secondary undamped spring.
Also, i found that the original 2.5w fork fluid is a bit thin, and 5w works heaps better.

But, in saying all of this, if the "tuning" of the damping helps a lot, but doesn't remove it all, and the oil height and weight doesn't correct it, then the damping valves/shims are possibly stuffed......

Remember, return you settings either to the manual settings, or back to your starting points.

You have said that you had the rear shock to your weight, was the same done at the front ?

One last thing.....have you changed the tyre ? A tyre that has become a little what i call "scalloped" from being run under pressure will become a bit lumpy, and at speed it is not noticed so much....but slow speeds and it feels like poo.....

I might no' be a smart man Jenny....but i can pain' ma copper colored bike a dif'ren color.....
.
.
2003 Copper SV1000S
Repainted Ford PE (Petroleum Mica)
Yoshi 2:1 collectors and Arrow titanium can...
One owner..... 292,000kms and counting...
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 1st October 2019, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missing Link View Post
Yuck !!

If the discs and pads have been changed, and there are NO pollutants on the discs to cause a momentary "slip" (which is like a high spot or warp, but without the pulse) and you really believe it is NOT the brakes themselves doing it, then it would seem that maybe you have a fork damping issue maybe??

The wheel bearings would have to be on the point of disintergrating to cause anything like this....so damping is the next.

Set the front springs to standard (owners manual) settings (record our currrent settings first) and do the same with the rebound and comp damping (record what you have it set at before setting it to standard) .
Take it for a ride to gauge the "bounce" ....then tighten (clockwise) the rebound damping a full turn (this is extreme) and then see how it feels. If the sensation continues, to the same with the compression damping...

If the problem dropped away with either or both of these changes, that will give you some clues as to if it is the forks doing it.

It may be that you just need to do some minor adjustments of those dampers, (one at a time) and tune it out, or, there may be something deeper.
This may require a look at the oil height in the forks, it may be too low, leaving a huge air gap which is like a secondary undamped spring.
Also, i found that the original 2.5w fork fluid is a bit thin, and 5w works heaps better.

But, in saying all of this, if the "tuning" of the damping helps a lot, but doesn't remove it all, and the oil height and weight doesn't correct it, then the damping valves/shims are possibly stuffed......

Remember, return you settings either to the manual settings, or back to your starting points.

You have said that you had the rear shock to your weight, was the same done at the front ?

One last thing.....have you changed the tyre ? A tyre that has become a little what i call "scalloped" from being run under pressure will become a bit lumpy, and at speed it is not noticed so much....but slow speeds and it feels like poo.....
Enormous thanks for your comprehensive assessment. The fork oil was recently changed and the front suspension is also set up for my weight and complimentary to the rear. I'm quite light at about 160lbs in my kit. You could well be right about the tyre being at fault. I always check the tyre pressures and it looks ok to the eye but have already ordered a new one, just in case. I have about 3mm tread depth remaining on the front but may as well have the new one fitted the same time as the new bearings.
Many thanks again. I'll be sure to let you know if the issue is fixed, as soon as it's been attended to.
Best regards from Wales.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 16th October 2019, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missing Link View Post
Yuck !!

If the discs and pads have been changed, and there are NO pollutants on the discs to cause a momentary "slip" (which is like a high spot or warp, but without the pulse) and you really believe it is NOT the brakes themselves doing it, then it would seem that maybe you have a fork damping issue maybe??

The wheel bearings would have to be on the point of disintergrating to cause anything like this....so damping is the next.

Set the front springs to standard (owners manual) settings (record our currrent settings first) and do the same with the rebound and comp damping (record what you have it set at before setting it to standard) .
Take it for a ride to gauge the "bounce" ....then tighten (clockwise) the rebound damping a full turn (this is extreme) and then see how it feels. If the sensation continues, to the same with the compression damping...

If the problem dropped away with either or both of these changes, that will give you some clues as to if it is the forks doing it.

It may be that you just need to do some minor adjustments of those dampers, (one at a time) and tune it out, or, there may be something deeper.
This may require a look at the oil height in the forks, it may be too low, leaving a huge air gap which is like a secondary undamped spring.
Also, i found that the original 2.5w fork fluid is a bit thin, and 5w works heaps better.

But, in saying all of this, if the "tuning" of the damping helps a lot, but doesn't remove it all, and the oil height and weight doesn't correct it, then the damping valves/shims are possibly stuffed......

Remember, return you settings either to the manual settings, or back to your starting points.

You have said that you had the rear shock to your weight, was the same done at the front ?

One last thing.....have you changed the tyre ? A tyre that has become a little what i call "scalloped" from being run under pressure will become a bit lumpy, and at speed it is not noticed so much....but slow speeds and it feels like poo.....
Hello again, finally got the new tyre and wheel bearings fitted. No joy, the bike's still pogoing on the forks. Had the discs checked with a dial gauge and they're fine. The discs that were junked by a previous shop were almost certainly fine as well. This issue is really getting on my nerves now. I've also tried three differing sets of brake pads, to no avail, and the forks have new oil in them. I'm wondering if it could be some form of hydraulic lock in the crossover balance brake pipe and if so, whether a vacuum bleeder might be better than bleeding by the normal method. I usually use a bleeder with a non return valve on it but didn't ask how the brakes were bled when the caliper seals were renewed a few months ago. Most likely the same way I do it myself though. I do know a fellow biker who has the vacuum sucker type and will try that next.
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 16th October 2019, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJS View Post
Hello again, finally got the new tyre and wheel bearings fitted. No joy, the bike's still pogoing on the forks. Had the discs checked with a dial gauge and they're fine. The discs that were junked by a previous shop were almost certainly fine as well. This issue is really getting on my nerves now. I've also tried three differing sets of brake pads, to no avail, and the forks have new oil in them. I'm wondering if it could be some form of hydraulic lock in the crossover balance brake pipe and if so, whether a vacuum bleeder might be better than bleeding by the normal method. I usually use a bleeder with a non return valve on it but didn't ask how the brakes were bled when the caliper seals were renewed a few months ago. Most likely the same way I do it myself though. I do know a fellow biker who has the vacuum sucker type and will try that next.


I just read most of the posts here and am a bit confused about what is actually going on. Are you getting brake pulse or is this a problem when just riding w/o any pressure on the front brakes? I am confused because several things discussed are completely different issues.

Brake pulse can be all kinds of brake related issues, but a pogo unsettled front end can be something completely different.

Thanks
-ms


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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 16th October 2019, 11:46 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by schmidt314 View Post
I just read most of the posts here and am a bit confused about what is actually going on. Are you getting brake pulse or is this a problem when just riding w/o any pressure on the front brakes? I am confused because several things discussed are completely different issues.

Brake pulse can be all kinds of brake related issues, but a pogo unsettled front end can be something completely different.

Thanks
-ms
Hello, I just got back from supper at my old ma's. It's definitely pulsing when on the brakes. The forks pumping up and down is only really noticeable when pulling up, particularly in stop/start traffic. As you've no doubt read, everything that I can think of has been changed already and three bike shops in all, as well as myself haven't managed to find out the root cause. There are no fluid leaks anywhere. I have seen master cylinder rebuild kits for sale on eBay but do you think they're relevant if the brake fluid level never drops ? I have Vesrah sintered pads in at the moment but things were no better with Brembo organics I removed only very recently. I did clean the discs thoroughly with brake cleaner and a rough sponge also, to no avail. The brakes are very efficient otherwise but this issue is very annoying indeed. I was told that the new tyre didn't need any weights whatsoever to balance the front wheel, so that at least can be discounted now, as can the wheel bearings. May I ask what you think I should try next ? Oh, when a shop changed the fork oil and caliper seals quite recently, they assured me that the pistons had been cleaned up at the same time. I rarely ride in wet weather nowadays, so they shouldn't have been too bad in any case. The shimmying I had remarked on when belting along previously was likely due to a tired Maxxis tyre that needed an inordinate number of lead weights for wheel balance. Obviously, with a brand new tyre, I haven't had the opportunity to see how the bike feels at speed yet, but it did feel very planted on the way home, if I can put it that way.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 17th October 2019, 01:12 AM
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You have said that a dial gauge was used, i assume looking for warped discs of course. Was the outer edge of disc checked to see if it is running evenly, as in no high spot in relation to its outer diameter. This is grasping at straws i know, but if somehow there was an issue with the disc(s) being centralised, the disc, for want of a better description, would be "phasing" (please insert better word someone) as it spins through the caliper....with the mean radius of the disc altering over each revolution.
If there is an issue there, are the disc bolts the correct ones ? Are they a good fit in the disc ?

I see you mentioned that you have washed the discs down with brake clean.....
Not saying that this has caused an issue, but, brake clean should NEVER be allowed to get on the pads....it will degrade the pad material and the chemical bonds within the compound.
Yes, i know they are formed under exteme heat and pressure, but i have been assured by our brake guru at my workplace that this is not a good thing.
Also, brake cleaner from an aerosol is also a total no-no on discs, as the solvent/propelants leave behind a residue that mimicks glazing once heated by the brakes, and because the coating of the fluid is not uniform, it can produce "slip" points on the disc, which behaves like a hot spot...

I have only ever had an issue once with shudder on my brakes, and that was when the original discs had finally died and the surface hardening of the discs had worn through in spots and the brakes were transferring a a "pulse" up through the forks.
Bike discs are almost all only surface hardened, not hardened all the way through. This is cheaper, and because the underlying material is "softer", they are quieter. Kawasaki discs might as well have been hardened with a hot iron for all the good they are, they chop through very quickly.
Brake set-up is very important.... Coarse steel wool (soapless) and a real good rub over with bulk brake clean, or even methylated spirits (no oils in that) and then light applications of the brakes, from about 60kph (40mph) down to 20kmh (12mph) , about 4 times, then go up to 80kph (50mph) and repeat the procedure, then 100kph (60mph)......

Then, slow down without using the brakes you are setting up, and cruise gently for 5 mins to cool the brakes down and stop in your driveway and leave it for some hours..... next time you ride, dont over-brake too much and and you will notice the brakes get better and better all the time....

The reason for the procedure, is this. When set up properly, the brake pads dont actually make contact with the metal disc, they interact with a transfer layer of the initial pad material that is layed onto the brake disc itself during break-in.

If the layer doesn't get built up uniformly and the brakes are used too heavily, the pads will try to grab on the metal, and tear away what little transfer layer has been deposited. This also shows up like hot-spots or high spots and can create shuddering or even pulsing at worst.
The surface hardening will suffer too, and once that breaks through, the pads grab on a very "soft" more porous surface and and then back to a smoother surface etc etc..... Shudder city....

I might no' be a smart man Jenny....but i can pain' ma copper colored bike a dif'ren color.....
.
.
2003 Copper SV1000S
Repainted Ford PE (Petroleum Mica)
Yoshi 2:1 collectors and Arrow titanium can...
One owner..... 292,000kms and counting...
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 17th October 2019, 01:23 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Missing Link View Post
You have mentioned that you have washed the discs down with brake clean.....
Not saying that this has caused an issue, but, brake clean should NEVER be allowed to get on the pads....it will degrade
the pad material and the chemical bonds within the compound. Yes, i know they are formed under exteme heat and pressure, but i have been assured by our brake guru at my workplace that this is not a good thing.
Also, brake cleaner from an aerosol is also a total no-no on discs, as the solvent/propelants leave behind a residue that mimicks glazing once heated by the brakes, and because the coating of the fluid is not uniform, it can produce "slip" points on the disc, which behaves like a hot spot...

I have only ever had an issue once with shudder on my brakes, and that was when the original discs had finally died and the surface hardening of the discs had worn through in spots and the brakes were transferring a a "pulse" up through the forks.
Bike discs are almost all only surface hardened, not hardened all the way through. This is cheaper, and because the underlying material is "softer", they are quieter. Kawasaki discs might as well have been hardened with a hot iron for all the good they are, they chop through very quickly.
Brake set-up is very important.... Coarse steel wool (soapless) and a real good rub over with bulk brake clean, or even methylated spirits (no oils in that) and then light applications of the brakes, from about 60kph (40mph) down to 20kmh (12mph) , about 4 times, then go up to 80kph (50mph) and repeat the procedure, then 100kph (60mph)......

Then, slow down without using the brakes you are setting up, and cruise gently for 5 mins to cool the brakes down and stop in your driveway and leave it for some hours..... next time you ride, dont over-brake too much and and you will notice the brakes get better and better all the time....

The reason for the procedure, is this. When set up properly, the brake pads dont actually make contact with the metal disc, they interact with a transfer layer of the initial pad material that is layed onto the brake disc itself during break-in.

If the layer doesn't get built up uniformly and the brakes are used too heavily, the pads will try to grab on the metal, and tear away what little transfer layer has been deposited. This also shows up like hot-spots or high spots and can create shuddering or even pulsing at worst.
The surface hardening will suffer too, and once that breaks through, the pads grab on a very "soft" more porous surface and and then back to a smoother surface etc etc..... Shudder city....
Thanks very much for your reply. This problem was there even with the original discs and well before I ever used brake cleaner on the discs. Even after doing so, I was very careful to dry them thoroughly with kitchen tissue, so as to not get any onto the pads. However, I will try what you advise, coarse steel wool and meths. I can always have a swig of the stuff if I get really desperate ! It used to be a nice mauve colour here in the UK years ago but I haven't had cause to buy any for years, until now !

Thanks again,
Goodnight.
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 20th October 2019, 11:28 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Missing Link View Post
You have said that a dial gauge was used, i assume looking for warped discs of course. Was the outer edge of disc checked to see if it is running evenly, as in no high spot in relation to its outer diameter. This is grasping at straws i know, but if somehow there was an issue with the disc(s) being centralised, the disc, for want of a better description, would be "phasing" (please insert better word someone) as it spins through the caliper....with the mean radius of the disc altering over each revolution.
If there is an issue there, are the disc bolts the correct ones ? Are they a good fit in the disc ?

I see you mentioned that you have washed the discs down with brake clean.....
Not saying that this has caused an issue, but, brake clean should NEVER be allowed to get on the pads....it will degrade the pad material and the chemical bonds within the compound.
Yes, i know they are formed under exteme heat and pressure, but i have been assured by our brake guru at my workplace that this is not a good thing.
Also, brake cleaner from an aerosol is also a total no-no on discs, as the solvent/propelants leave behind a residue that mimicks glazing once heated by the brakes, and because the coating of the fluid is not uniform, it can produce "slip" points on the disc, which behaves like a hot spot...

I have only ever had an issue once with shudder on my brakes, and that was when the original discs had finally died and the surface hardening of the discs had worn through in spots and the brakes were transferring a a "pulse" up through the forks.
Bike discs are almost all only surface hardened, not hardened all the way through. This is cheaper, and because the underlying material is "softer", they are quieter. Kawasaki discs might as well have been hardened with a hot iron for all the good they are, they chop through very quickly.
Brake set-up is very important.... Coarse steel wool (soapless) and a real good rub over with bulk brake clean, or even methylated spirits (no oils in that) and then light applications of the brakes, from about 60kph (40mph) down to 20kmh (12mph) , about 4 times, then go up to 80kph (50mph) and repeat the procedure, then 100kph (60mph)......

Then, slow down without using the brakes you are setting up, and cruise gently for 5 mins to cool the brakes down and stop in your driveway and leave it for some hours..... next time you ride, dont over-brake too much and and you will notice the brakes get better and better all the time....

The reason for the procedure, is this. When set up properly, the brake pads dont actually make contact with the metal disc, they interact with a transfer layer of the initial pad material that is layed onto the brake disc itself during break-in.

If the layer doesn't get built up uniformly and the brakes are used too heavily, the pads will try to grab on the metal, and tear away what little transfer layer has been deposited. This also shows up like hot-spots or high spots and can create shuddering or even pulsing at worst.
The surface hardening will suffer too, and once that breaks through, the pads grab on a very "soft" more porous surface and and then back to a smoother surface etc etc..... Shudder city....
I cleaned the discs with coarse wire wool and meths, as you suggested and the situation has vastly improved. There's still a slight pulsing but it's now likely due to contaminated pad material as your pal indicated, from the brake cleaner. I very much appreciate your help and will give the discs another cleanup next time I fit new pads.
Best regards.
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