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SV1000N Drag Bike

33K views 221 replies 13 participants last post by  D.T. 
#1 ·
So let me start out saying that I am total newb when it comes to drag racing, but I went last friday and I am hooked now.


<a href="http://s292.photobucket.com/user/ryansport22/media/595_zps827964c8.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm39/ryansport22/595_zps827964c8.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 595_zps827964c8.jpg"/></a>

Next year I plan on doing a full season of drag racing as well as daily riding the bike. I know that a sv1000 is not the best drag bike but it is what I got and was very fun to race. I need to keep it street legal and be able to return it back to a corner carver with only a couple of hours of work.

Current bike mods
-yosh 2 into 1 exhaust
-air box mods
-power commander (not custom tuned yet)
-soupy's lowering links
-front strap

Alright my best time was as follows

R/T .419
60' 1.877
330 4.851
1/8 7.332
mph 99.67
1000 9.512
1/4 11.362
mph 121.76

So how do the times look? I now I need to practice my launch a lot. I was getting my fastest 60' times by letting the clutch out around 3000 rpms, bike would pull a 6 inch wheelie then bog for a sec then I would be able to go full throttle the rest of the run. I tried more throttle and using the clutch to control the power but I never got it right. I was also shifting like normal letting off the throttle and using the clutch.

The bike was a total wheelie monster all night, it never spun the back tire and I was running my street pressure at 36psi. The launch just wanted to flip over, 1-2 shift pulled a 6 inch wheelie, 2-3 pulled a 1 inch wheelie, and 3-4 stayed on the ground.


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#2 ·
Next year I really want to get into the 10s, maybe down to 10.5 if possible.

For me I want to lose about 20lb and get a lot of seat time.

For the bike here are some ideas

-quick shifter (I had no problem getting my feet up to shift)
-custom dyno tune
-swingarm extensions, exoticycle 2-7, roaring toyz 2-8
-and lastly getting sorted out as far as tire pressure, shock settings, and gearing.

If anyone has any advise I am all ears.

Ryan
 
#3 ·
Looks like you are at Woodburn eh?

Here is my opinion on some of the stuff

Launch by getting the clutch out as fast as possible and then control by throttle like you were. Get a couple of clutches as spares and swap to the DL clutch guts or weld the SV BTL unit up and use heavy springs. This will help a whole bunch. I struggled launching my SV1000 off the starting grid until I did this. Wheelies were minimized and I started beating a bunch of the pack into the first corner.

Get some gearing to help optimize launch, shifts and top speed potential

Consider making the bike as light as possible, this often easier than building a performance motor. Light batteries, light wheels, 520 chain kits, toss the pair valves, remove tool kit and every other simple thing you can think of.

Lowering and strapping down you have handled along with longer swingarm.

I love building SV engines so I have to say build a motor. These motors can rip, but it is all about money. Good tuning and quick shifts just make it all better too

I am not a real drag racer but I have made some passes on road race prepped machines to practice launches and it is tough to launch. There are some folks on here who have real hardcore drag racing experience so hopefully they will chime in too

-ms
 
#4 ·
Work on your reaction time. Anything over .1 is bad and .2 is totally unacceptable. If you want to get into the 10's, learning when to leave is critical. If you wait to see green you're way too late.
 
#5 ·
Yeah Woodburn Friday Night Drags. Thanks for the tips on the clutch, Ill probably swap to the DL clutch with stiffer springs next year.

On the gearing I was running stock 17-40 and I think 17-42 would put me at or just past peak power crossing the finish in 4th. This may change though as I get faster.

On the reaction time I got a tip from a more experienced racer to not worry about it till I felt comfortable with everything else. I did get a .015 later in the day but it was a slower run. My numbers changed a couple of tenths every run meaning I need more seat time.

I did race against a gsxr 750 and it was a rush. First run I took him off the line and thought I was going to win my first drag race until he flew past me just before the finish. He was crossing around 130mph. Second race I took him off the line again but this time he didn't catch up, he still crossed 9 mph faster too.

Anyways I'm happy to have found a new hobby, all the other people at the drag strip were very nice and welcoming. Kinda sucks that the season is over now, I just went on a whim on the last day. I guess this gives me plenty of time to get ready for next season.
 
#6 ·
Work on your reaction time. Anything over .1 is bad and .2 is totally unacceptable. If you want to get into the 10's, learning when to leave is critical. If you wait to see green you're way too late.
Not knowing the lights at your local track, this may not be relevant, but here goes anyway.

I did some drag racing in New Zealand back in the 90's and we had the Christmas tree where the top light would come on, and then they would travel down a series of yellow lights to the green on the bottom.

One of the other racers told me that the time split between the last yellow and the green was 0.4 of a second, and as my reaction time would not be as fast as that, I should always launch when I see the last yellow, it worked a treat - super fast reaction time :supsmiley:

If your local track has the same lights, stand at the starting line and you'll soon figure out if it'll work for you.
 
#8 ·
search pete59 in the members bit and give him a pm, hes national british champian I think in some class, hes been dragg'n SV's for years, what he don't know ain't worth learn'n.
 
#9 ·
schmidt314 - You seem to have a lot of knowledge about these engines, so I have a few questions for you.

Do you have a recommended tuner somewhere in Oregon? I'm in need of a good dyno tune, I already have a pcIII.

I am also interested in doing some light engine work either this year or next. Thousand bucks for budget. What would you recommend? It needs to be daily rider still and run off 92 octane. I was thinking along the lines of exhaust cam swap only, cam gears if needed. What type of gains would you expect from this on a 03 engine? Again any recommendation on a shop to do this.

Thanks in advance for your help

Ryan
 
#10 ·
schmidt314 - You seem to have a lot of knowledge about these engines, so I have a few questions for you.

Do you have a recommended tuner somewhere in Oregon? I'm in need of a good dyno tune, I already have a pcIII.
Where are you at? I would say Nels is your best bet right now.

I am also interested in doing some light engine work either this year or next. Thousand bucks for budget. What would you recommend? It needs to be daily rider still and run off 92 octane. I was thinking along the lines of exhaust cam swap only, cam gears if needed. What type of gains would you expect from this on a 03 engine? Again any recommendation on a shop to do this.

Thanks in advance for your help

Ryan
$1000 is pretty small budget if you are not able to do the work yourself. You can build ultra high reliability and run on pump gas pretty easily. There are a couple of cam timing tricks that cam be easily perfromed on an 03-04 motor tohelp optimize cam timing, but the later bikes it does not quite come up with optimal numbers since the OEM cam timing is much different than the earlier bikes. I will send a PM

-MS
 
#11 ·
PM replied, thank you schmidt314.

I used to have a 97 gsxr750 that had 123 hp. That thing was a rocket up top. If I could keep the mid-range of the SV and still get the top end of my old gsxr I would be a happy camper.

Please enlighten me of these cam timing tricks for the 03-04, this is exactly what I'm looking for.

Basically once I go get dyno tuned I am going to just be happy with what ever I get, but if there is some sub $1000 options for more top end hp before I go I'm all ears.
 
#12 ·
Taking a week off from the SV to get the Subi ready for the next AutoX

<a href="http://s292.photobucket.com/user/ryansport22/media/_DSC1376_zpsfba4748d.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm39/ryansport22/_DSC1376_zpsfba4748d.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo _DSC1376_zpsfba4748d.jpg"/></a>

But I'll be back with some GSXR rear shock updates and a spare stock seat shaved down for drag racing.

Ryan
 
#13 ·
Taking a week off from the SV to get the Subi ready for the next AutoX

But I'll be back with some GSXR rear shock updates and a spare stock seat shaved down for drag racing.

Ryan
Check these threads out for interesting engine stuff
http://www.sv-portal.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46697 This street motor hauls ass. Fastest pump gas SV I have put together.
http://www.sv-portal.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37806
http://www.sv-portal.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18623

-ms
 
#14 ·
Well after doing some research, talking to spears enterprises, and PMing with schmidt314 it looks like I'm going to wait to do any real engine work. The main reason being that my budget is a little too small to get cams, cam gears, pistons, ect. I think I will save up and do everything together in a year or two.

schmidt314- I just got done reading your posts and PDF files on fuel and ignition tuning. They are very interesting and I wanted to thank you for sharing them with the public. It seems that there are some large gains from ignition tuning around 6,000 to 7,000 rpms and again above 8,700 rpms. The over rev rage seems to have the largest increase in power. One question for you though, do you think you would be able to get any more power from the ignition tuning if you were to run 92 octane instead of 87?

Thanks
Ryan
 
#15 ·
schmidt314- I just got done reading your posts and PDF files on fuel and ignition tuning. They are very interesting and I wanted to thank you for sharing them with the public. It seems that there are some large gains from ignition tuning around 6,000 to 7,000 rpms and again above 8,700 rpms. The over rev rage seems to have the largest increase in power. One question for you though, do you think you would be able to get any more power from the ignition tuning if you were to run 92 octane instead of 87?

Thanks
Ryan
To be honest in a stock motor config you might actually get better power from 87 or 89 than 92. I can not confirm this for sure, but I have seen it be the case on other bikes I have directly observed running on the dyno. If you were thinking you could run more advance with better fuel that might be true, but more advance does not always get you more power. The bike did not detonate at all so all was good.
-MS
 
#16 ·
Couple of small updates.

Got a 08 GSXR 1000 shock installed, this shock is firmer, has a higher spring rate, and is shorter. Hopefully this combo works well with a 7 inch stretch till I can afford a real drag shock. It also fit without any modification to tool box.

<a href="http://s292.photobucket.com/user/ryansport22/media/image_zpsfa009a45.jpeg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm39/ryansport22/image_zpsfa009a45.jpeg" border="0" alt=" photo image_zpsfa009a45.jpeg"/></a>
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<a href="http://s292.photobucket.com/user/ryansport22/media/image2_zpsadd48a22.jpeg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm39/ryansport22/image2_zpsadd48a22.jpeg" border="0" alt=" photo image2_zpsadd48a22.jpeg"/></a>

I also got some time to trim down a second stock seat. 10mm of race seat foam glued down to the stock seat pan. After a couple of test fits I cut a off most of the front lip of the stock seat pan. The new seat is a couple of inches lower than stock with a raised rear section that stops you from sliding back on take off.

<a href="http://s292.photobucket.com/user/ryansport22/media/image3_zpsbc752202.jpeg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm39/ryansport22/image3_zpsbc752202.jpeg" border="0" alt=" photo image3_zpsbc752202.jpeg"/></a>
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#17 ·
I think I have a 650lb/in shock shock spring if interested. I think you will find with a 7" stretch I think this is about a 33% gain in total length so I think you will need approximately a 33% stiffer spring. So if you use a 500lb/in spring normally than you would need a 665lb/in spring to make the action similar to before. I am not a drag racer, but I thought his was the rule of thumb.

-MS
 
#18 ·
I think you are correct about the spring rate needed. If I'm not mistaken, stock was 447 and the gsxr one is 556, that would be about 24% increase. I'm going to give this one a try next year to see how well it works. If it doesn't work, I'll be sending you a PM to see if you still have the 650 spring.

Also an interesting article about spring rates for drag racing.
http://tracdynamics.com/products/shock-springs#.UlY5UVBQF7w
 
#19 ·
A 10inch stretch will get you a 10.7 off a 9000rpm launch (solid stut rear, stock motor, standard gearing, 10-12psi) Launch off the limiter got 10.5 - bit hairy
NOS helps but you'll initially lose bhp due installation set up ( airbox has to go) but 40bhp of NOS on a detuned 100bhp got me 10.1s - oh and then you'll find the clutch can't handle it - weld up centre gives a smoother but softer launch (dropped from 1.5s 60ft to 1.65s) so then you need a lockup clutch (which is where I'm at)
Don't try beyond 40bhp NOS unless you invest in gizmos to retard timing and /or 110 octane + fuel or you'll melt it (as I did with 60bhp)
Tyres make a difference - 190/50 Michelin Super Cup are OK, Shinko 190/50 or 180/55 are better and suprisingly Metzler Racetech KO-K2 190/55 give really good grip.
Strap the front & lower the whole plot by 3 inches (hence a solid strut)
Once it's long & low - just nail it (1.5s 60ft is the aim) -quickshifers & airshifters are possible but I trashed the gearbox on my first try.
Enjoy
cheers Pete
 
#20 ·
Well the stretch is done, just need to get the license plate and blinkers setup. The wheel base is measuring around 64 inches but that might change a bit after the chain is set. Pics coming soon!!!

I just wanted to thank schmidt314 for his work with cam timing and spelling it out for the average joe (me). I'll be measuring up my lobe centers next month and hopefully come up with some better numbers using factory parts. Also schmidt314 if its not too much trouble, is it likely to get good cam timing options using your method with milled cylinders? Any calculators for this?

Anyways just trying to maximize horsepower before getting dyno tuned in a couple of months. Items in consideration

- Changing stock cam lobe centers
- Milling cylinders (only if it works with stock cams, stock cam gears)
-52mm to 54mm throttle bodies, not sure what effect this would have on power or the power curve???

I've been dreaming of running a 10.something 1/4 mile sense I was 16 and I'm hopeful that it will happen this year.

Ryan
 
#22 ·
I would have to look try to find the right spread sheet, but I think the lobe center offset due to milling is about 4 degrees/mm of deck height/head milling.

So, if you started at 105/105 and milled off 0.25mm you would get a result of about 106/104.

You might consider getting a set of 05 and up exhaust cams.

To get the most out it I would mill the head and cylinders if you want to get even more compression but stay with stock guts. With everything milled and ready assemble it and check cam timing. Now run the math and see if you can find a good set of lobe centers. If you are drag racing it, you might want to keep the LSA small for peak power, but if you want to keep riding it on the street that is a consideration also.

-MS
 
#21 ·
I wanted to thank Pete59 for the help with gearing in the past, I'm going to try 17-42 this year- aiming to finish at the top of 4th.

Also Pete59 what do you do for shifting? I want to keep my transmission in one piece but I also want to go fast.

At the last test and tune I used the clutch and rolled off the throttle just like normal street riding, this was for all gears.

In the future I was thinking about using the dynojet quick shifter (still clutching the 1-2 shift)
or
Clutching and rolling off throttle for the 1-2 and clutchless for the rest still rolling off the throttle.

Hope this question makes sense
and thanks for the help

Ryan
 
#25 ·
Hi Ryan
Glad it's all coming together - I'm sure you'll get a 10s run
I've tried a Dynojet quickshifter (set at 50 thou sec delay) but found the vibes from the bike were setting it off all the time (bit like a misfire) so I just use the clutch 1st to 2nd then clutchless at 9500 rpm with a slight throttle backoff for the rest. Sometimes I dip the clutch on all changes & don't notice a time difference - like you I'm concerned at wrecking another box.
Also running NOS means an airshifter wouldn't cut the NOS/Fuel supply at shift resulting in massive bangs on each gear change (not good news)

Cheers Pete
 
#23 ·
schmidt314 (forgive my math if it is wrong) but if my 03 engine measures up like your example in "Setting cam lobe centers without adjustable gear sets" on line 7 would measure up well to .25mm milling and line 13 would measure up to .50mm milling. These would both give close to 106/108 cam values.

Also if you find 106/108 to be optimal values for road racing what would you guess would be optimal values for drag racing.


thanks again

Ryan

PS if you have the free time to build my engine I would bring it to you, just PM me with estimate time/cost, also I am more than willing to Payal you plenty of beer money for baby stepping me through this.
 
#24 ·
You are correct. Although the 106/108 combo might not be optimal for a drag race set up. You might want a bit more overlap. the 106/108 numbers work great for all around good power delivery.

PM/email me about your engine. We can figure something out.

-MS
 
#28 ·
Some pics of the stretch, still needs a wash.

<a href="http://s292.photobucket.com/user/ryansport22/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps74bbe0e3.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm39/ryansport22/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps74bbe0e3.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo image_zps74bbe0e3.jpg"/></a>

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#29 ·
Finally got the quick-shifter working correctly with zero dollars spent!!!

I'm using the power commander III usb. I enabled the quick-shifter option using my laptop. I used the 9v harness the comes with the power commander. One of the wires in the harness needs to be repined to the quick-shifter pin. Then I ran the 2 wires to my horn button.

Hope that all makes sense.

Now with the laptop I set the activation rpm at 9,500 with 100ms kill. The kill time took some experimenting, and a 100ms sounds like a lot but it feels very fast. This setup is very smooth and works for all gears including 1st to 2nd.

So when I feel like using the quick-shifter I just hold down the horn button and preload the shifter. Once 9,500 rpms is reached it kills the fuel for 100ms and allows me to shift to the next gear.

Also if I had the ability to set the quick shifter kill times per gear that would be nice because 2nd to 3rd worked well at 90ms and 3rd to 4th at 85ms and down to 75ms by the time your shifting into 6th.

schmidt314- Thanks for all the engine building information but after talking it over with the wife adding more power will have to wait for another year. Hopefully your still working on SV's then.
 
#31 ·
Finally got the quick-shifter working correctly!!!

I'm using the power commander III usb. I enabled the quick-shifter option using my laptop. I used the 9v harness the comes with the power commander. One of the wires in the harness needs to be repined to the quick-shifter pin. Then I ran the 2 wires to my horn button.

Hope that all makes sense.

Now with the laptop I set the activation rpm at 9,500 with 100ms kill. The kill time took some experimenting, and a 100ms sounds like a lot but it feels very fast. This setup is very smooth and works for all gears including 1st to 2nd.

So when I feel like using the quick-shifter I just hold down the horn button and preload the shifter. Once 9,500 rpms is reached it kills the fuel for 100ms and allows me to shift to the next gear.

Also if I had the ability to set the quick shifter kill times per gear that would be nice because 2nd to 3rd worked well at 90ms and 3rd to 4th at 85ms and down to 75ms by the time your shifting into 6th.

schmidt314- Thanks for all the engine building information but after talking it over with the wife adding more power will have to wait for another year. Hopefully your still working on SV's then.
You are not using the shifter pressure sensor for the quick shift?
It sounds like you just wired into the fuel injector circuit instead of using an ignition kill?
Your delays seem pretty long form what I am used to, but if you are killing fuel, it might be a whole other story for timing. I think I run my roadrace bike around 60ms ignition kill with a shift rod pressure sensor. I know on the other race bikes with Bazzaz units we are typically around 80ms first to second and then they get as low as 40ms in the top gear or two. Make sure that you really tune the times for a real drag launch/shifting at full throttle. I found that trying to even set delays at trackdays was problematic because I just could not get up to pace. In real race situations the times changed for me to be optimal.

I will still be doing SVs in a year. I am working on a couple for people right now even and I have another engine going together for me as another experiment. If you are in the neighborhood, maybe I would let you ride my yellow project bike. I hope to get that one to the dyno soon to make it even nastier. This one would give you an idea of what a medium built 100mm engine feels like.

EDIT: Well at least I thought I am running ignition kill since my quick shift runs through the DynoJet ignition box.

-MS
 
#30 ·
Riding impressions with an extended bike- I thought it was going to handle poorly but for me it handles great. I don't drag knee on the street but I do like to lean over. The bike feels a little slower when flicking from side to side but it feels much more stable in long sweepers and straights. Overall it feels a little less twitchy and little more relaxed. For comparison last year when I had it lowered to the max for drag racing it handled pretty bad at swb, so I would say lowering effects the handling much more than extending.

With 30psi in the rear tire it will spin in first if you are aggressive with the throttle but with 25psi in the rear it will still pull the front tire off the ground in first. On a prepped track I don't think I'm going to have too much trouble with traction.
 
#32 ·
I'm pretty sure the power commander on its own does fuel kill. I don't have an ignition box but I think you are correct that ignition gets used over fuel. Also I didn't buy a quick-shifter but rather just used the programming inside the power commander with a button instead of the shift pressure sensor.

The different types of sensors and kills could be part of the reason for the time differences.

I also have the heavy 03 flywheel, heavy stock wheels, longer chain, ect. not sure how much this stuff effects shift time.

But I do know that with my set up a 90ms kill between 1st and 2nd would get neutral almost every time. And 90ms between 2nd and 3rd felt like it barely clicked in.

I also 100% agree with you about race pace. I'll bring my laptop and if everything feels good Ill try 95ms or lower at the next drag.

Is there anything wrong with a long kill time for shifting other than being slow?
 
#34 ·
Is there anything wrong with a long kill time for shifting other than being slow?
Not really, you just need to use the right times to make it shift just right. Not enough delay and it won't shift, or it false nuetral typically and too much time it will shift but will bang into gear due to it shifting anf then still slight delay and then BANG! engine lights, tranny winds up and smashes the dogs together in the tranny. Too much of either too slow or too fast will eventually cause tranny failure.

-MS
 
#33 ·
schmidt314- would let you drive this to ride yellow project bike :niceone::niceone::niceone:

<a href="http://s292.photobucket.com/user/ryansport22/media/DSC_0099-1.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm39/ryansport22/DSC_0099-1.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DSC_0099-1.jpg"/></a>
 
#36 ·
Yes 24 Hours of LeMons is great! A friend of mine did it for the first time this year with a mini van. This mini van autocross's as well and is actually kinda fast. I have yet to try it. But at this time autox and drag racing is all the play money I have.

Ryan
 
#39 ·
Alright 06 exhaust cams are ordered. While the engine is apart I will be milling the cylinders and maybe the heads. It still needs to run on 92 octane but I want to up the compression as much as possible. I'll just see what the cam lobe centers are once things are put together and decide what to do about it at that time. It sounds like Ill be able to get good intake lope centers but the exhaust might be off. I may try pressing them off and back on sense I have more free time than $ right now.

Ryan
 
#40 ·
Alright 06 exhaust cams are ordered. While the engine is apart I will be milling the cylinders and maybe the heads. It still needs to run on 92 octane but I want to up the compression as much as possible. I'll just see what the cam lobe centers are once things are put together and decide what to do about it at that time. It sounds like Ill be able to get good intake lope centers but the exhaust might be off. I may try pressing them off and back on sense I have more free time than $ right now.



Ryan

Woo Hoo! Mill mill mill!
You are going to like the results.
PM sent.
-ms
 
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