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post #46 of 222 (permalink) Old 10th February 2014, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ryansport22 View Post
Yeah I have only ever missed one shift and that was a 1-2 shift at 9500rpm with 90ms kill time. I didn't like the feeling. Hopefully I can get it setup so the bike and I are both happy next year. I got a tlr short shifter ordered and I was planning on trying a gp shift pattern. If it does break looks like Ill be calling R&D Transmission.



How many transmission issues have you had on sv's over the years schmidt314? Do you think sv's have a strong, weak, average transmission compared to other bikes?

I think GP shift would be good along with a Factory Pro shift star kit. I have had 0 tranny issues over the years. I think there have only been a couple of tranny problems reported on the forum, and one of them was a drag race failure.

In my opinion SV1000s have really strong reliable transmissions. I have not been drag racing them though. In general over the years I rarely see Suzuki transmission issues and they always tend to shift better than other brands. I definitely see more issues on other brands. Don't get me going on Kawasaki or Ducati transmissions...

-ms


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post #47 of 222 (permalink) Old 10th February 2014, 08:27 PM Thread Starter
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I did some research on the shift star and it sounds pretty awesome. I wont be able to do it right now but I am imagining a future project doing the shift star, DL aluminum clutch basket, HD clutch springs, and probably new stock clutch steels if I need them.

Possibly add a 05 flywheel and that is a good bit of weight taken off.

Good to hear about the SV transmission being reliable for you schmidt314. I'm usually pretty easy of transmissions. I kept my subaru 5 speed, nick named the glass box, alive for 7 years of racing with 375 ft/lb.

If the shift star could shave 10ms per shift and be easier on the transmission, then its a no brainer- just got to save some $.

Ryan
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post #48 of 222 (permalink) Old 10th February 2014, 08:35 PM
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I did some research on the shift star and it sounds pretty awesome. I wont be able to do it right now but I am imagining a future project doing the shift star, DL aluminum clutch basket, HD clutch springs, and probably new stock clutch steels if I need them.

Possibly add a 05 flywheel and that is a good bit of weight taken off.

Good to hear about the SV transmission being reliable for you schmidt314. I'm usually pretty easy of transmissions. I kept my subaru 5 speed, nick named the glass box, alive for 7 years of racing with 375 ft/lb.

If the shift star could shave 10ms per shift and be easier on the transmission, then its a no brainer- just got to save some $.

Ryan
For the clutch parts contact rixtrix. I sold a completely brand new conversion kit with all the parts to him. It did not solve the problem he had, so he removed it all and I think might still have it for sale.
http://www.sv-portal.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51394

I really like the star kits and have them in all my SVs and have been in all kinds of other bikes I have owned. The nice thing about the SV1000 is that the star is easy to replace at any time. Most bikes have the shift star under the clutch cover, this bike has the nice little access cover under the counter shaft cover that allows you to put it in w/o too much headache.

-MS


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post #49 of 222 (permalink) Old 15th March 2014, 08:13 PM
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Just read through the thread...and don't see any mention about having the STV's removed. You aren't still running them...right? If you are, you'll see an instant ET reduction by taking them OUT. Every time you close the throttle for a shift, they close with you then take an instant to open back up which will cost you time. Mine felt like it hesitated after each shift due to the STV's being so late coming back to the party.

Now that you've got the stretched arm on it having a lot more off the line power shouldn't hurt you. Mike Schmidt is The Man and following his suggestions on the engine will work as promised. Mine has the 'Bang for the Buck' package with Wiseco 12:1 TL pistons, WebCam gears and milled jugs and runs great. You won't regret following this pattern and the money/effort will be well spent.

The GP shifting should be mandatory for any dragracer I'd think as it's SO much easier to stomp the lever vs having to fight the G forces and lift the lever precisely. Having the TL shift lever will shorten the throw and I just installed a Factory Pro star this winter and that really tightened up the shifting. Your ignition/injection kill setup somehow doesn't seem ideal to me with it forcing you to preload the shifter for it to work. This seems like it would be increasing the stresses on the forks and drum and personally I'd just shift normally with the GP and FP star as it's fast as lightning without any fooling around with ignition killing and stuff. If you're going to go that route, installing the proper QuickShifter setup to take proper advantage of if would be the better way IMHO.

Mike's advice about the DL hub install is a great one too. It takes close to 2lbs off the center of the clutch and makes your control of the friction point possible. I never could get along with the BTL doing weird things like it does and now the clutch is flawless.

Some of the racers have offered that on the line you want to 'punch' the clutch hard to get the bike moving but then pull it back in a little and control the release over the first second or so to help keep the front end down. This gets the bike moving on time so your RT's will be consistent as they need to be to play this game. If you have the bike setup so you can just dump the clutch off the line all the better! With the long arm now you might be able to spin the tire a little with a dump and not bog yet scorch the 60ft times. Will be watching for your next installment about how the winters' mods have helped you.
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post #50 of 222 (permalink) Old 19th April 2014, 04:30 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the tips RecoilRob, I've been thinking about going back to normal shifting. I also can't really get use to gp shift on the street so I might have to go back to normal on that as well.

Well I got a chance to measure the cam lobe centers today

03 stock intake and exhaust
Front intake 109.5
Front exhaust 107
Rear intake 112
rear exhaust 105.5

all were measured with 1mm lift and lash was stock (not reset to 0)

now with the later exhaust cams installed
Front intake 110 (got 109.5 last time but nothing should have changed)
Front exhaust 110.5
Rear intake 112
Rear exhaust 112

Feeling a little more comfortable working on this engine now, tomorrow I'm going to check squish and look into getting the cylinders milled.
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post #51 of 222 (permalink) Old 19th April 2014, 10:24 AM
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Thanks for the tips RecoilRob, I've been thinking about going back to normal shifting. I also can't really get use to gp shift on the street so I might have to go back to normal on that as well.

Well I got a chance to measure the cam lobe centers today

03 stock intake and exhaust
Front intake 109.5
Front exhaust 107
Rear intake 112
rear exhaust 105.5

all were measured with 1mm lift and lash was stock (not reset to 0)

now with the later exhaust cams installed
Front intake 110 (got 109.5 last time but nothing should have changed)
Front exhaust 110.5
Rear intake 112
Rear exhaust 112

Feeling a little more comfortable working on this engine now, tomorrow I'm going to check squish and look into getting the cylinders milled.
Good data. Your numbers vary a bit from my 03-04 motor data, but it is what it is. Has this engine ever been apart before? How many miles on the engine?

Awesome, measure that thing up and start milling heads and cylinders! These motors love more compression. Don't believe the published compression spec either, if you are trying to do math with that.

Nice work.
-MS


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post #52 of 222 (permalink) Old 19th April 2014, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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Motor has never been apart as far as I know, about 7,500 miles. With the stock cams I was practicing how to measure lobe centers. I was getting a little better and more accurate with the later exhaust cams. When I do it a finial time after milling I will be as accurate as I can be.

Thanks for all the help with this schmidt314, I should have my squish numbers late tonight. When I take the cylinders into a machine shop, is there anything I need to know? Lets say they are taking off 0.5mm does this come off the top or bottom of the cylinder? Anything special to tell them about Nikasil plating?

Also any preferred sites/vendors to buy stock head gaskets and other related items?

Ryan
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post #53 of 222 (permalink) Old 19th April 2014, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ryansport22 View Post
Motor has never been apart as far as I know, about 7,500 miles. With the stock cams I was practicing how to measure lobe centers. I was getting a little better and more accurate with the later exhaust cams. When I do it a finial time after milling I will be as accurate as I can be.

Thanks for all the help with this schmidt314, I should have my squish numbers late tonight. When I take the cylinders into a machine shop, is there anything I need to know? Lets say they are taking off 0.5mm does this come off the top or bottom of the cylinder? Anything special to tell them about Nikasil plating?

Ryan
The material comes off the top of the cylinder. The machinist does not really need to know that it is a plated cylinder, but mention it anyway. Make sure they know that it uses an MLS gasket to assure they finish to the correct surface finish. Going to do the heads too?

The cam timing will shift a bit taking material off too so always re check to make sure you are where you want to be. Then maybe we can use the method I put out there to rephase the intermediate gear to change timing too.

Is the motor out? If not, I can send you the tricks for getting the rear head off while it is still in the bike.

-MS


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post #54 of 222 (permalink) Old 19th April 2014, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
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Motor is still in the bike, front cylinder looks easy (about to start on that) rear cylinder looks a little harder. I would appreciate any tricks. Not sure about heads yet, if you think there is some power to be had on top of milling the cylinders I probably will.

I expect the cam timing to be off after this, hopefully there is a good cam timing option without having to buy adjustable gears.

Thanks
Ryan
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post #55 of 222 (permalink) Old 19th April 2014, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryansport22 View Post
Motor is still in the bike, front cylinder looks easy (about to start on that) rear cylinder looks a little harder. I would appreciate any tricks. Not sure about heads yet, if you think there is some power to be had on top of milling the cylinders I probably will.



I expect the cam timing to be off after this, hopefully there is a good cam timing option without having to buy adjustable gears.



Thanks

Ryan


There is definitely more power in milling the heads and still can run pump gas too. It is all in where you want to be compression wise and don't worry, there should be near 0 reliability implications if performed correctly.



Here is a brief procedure/description of the rear cylinder head removal with the engine in the bike.



Remove the rear exhaust stub pipe. Everyone says the rear header pipe is a pain to get off. I think it is pretty easy actually. From the left side of the bike the left bolt can be easily removed with an allen socket and an extension or two. The right side one is trickier, but with a few extensions again and a U joint it is pretty easy, if you remove the right foot peg hanger and tie it up out of the way.





After the rear cams are out and the cam chain tensioner has been removed, the intermediate/idler gear bolt needs to be removed. This is the tricky part.



You will need a 30mm straight section of a 10mm allen wrench or press out the bit section of a 10mm allen socket. It can be a bit shorter, but not much longer.



Place the allen wrench section into two 10mm box end wrenches. I use two wrenches for extra grip on the allen bit, slide it between the frame and the engine and twist it into place so that the allen is fully inserted into the bolt. Now you might be able to just muscle it, but usually on an engine that has never been cracked apart, it might take a couple of smacks with a dead blow hammer, or a short cheater bar to crack that bolt loose. It will pop loose. From here thread the bolt out as far as you can. Now try to wiggle the bolt out carefully. I have gotten some out easy and some are a pain. If it does not come out the next secret is to use the thrust adjuster that seats on the cylinder head right near where you are working. Take the engine mount bolt out and loosen the lock ring with the Suzuki special tool. Back the ring out or take it off. Use a 19mm 6 point socket and crank the thrust adjuster in farther a mm or two. This will flex the frame out slightly. You should now be able to get the bolt out, drop the gear down, get the chain off and get the gear out. The rest is easy.



I do this all the time, so It can be done.



-MS


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post #56 of 222 (permalink) Old 20th April 2014, 12:10 AM Thread Starter
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Alright front head off, starting on rear now. Thanks for the tips.

I guess sense I am going through all the work to mill the cylinders I may as well have the heads done too. Just have to figure out how to get the wife on board.
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post #57 of 222 (permalink) Old 20th April 2014, 10:25 AM Thread Starter
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Alright after a long day of reading the shop manual, posts by schmidt314, and wrenching in between I got some measurements.

The solder I used was 2.2mm to start with and I stuck 2 pieces to each piston with some grease. After running them by top dead center a couple of times I got-

Front 1.38 and 1.18
Rear 1.43 and 1.18

I ended up checking the front twice (because it is easier) and got the exact same numbers again.

Is it normal to have this type of difference on each piston? Do these numbers sound reasonable? And based on these numbers how much should I mill off the cylinders?

Alright on to piston to valve clearance. I put 4 small pieces of clay on each piston and ran it through a couple of revolutions. None of the pieces of clay had valve marks on them. The clay was about 4mm thick. I'm thinking either that I should have used a thicker piece of clay or that I poorly placed the clay on the piston. What is a normal number for stock piston to valve clearance?

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Building special tools...
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post #58 of 222 (permalink) Old 20th April 2014, 08:33 PM
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Just have to figure out how to get the wife on board.
Get yourself (or build) a properly kitted racevan that takes the bike & with slot in panels converts to a double bed & also has a loo, gas hob, sink & worktop/drawers for kitchen stuff will help a lot. A box trailer on the back for another bike / workshop is even better.
Join a Sprint/Drag club & get her involved with trackside support (Marshal, Timing, etc) all helps to make it work out. My wife Sue is now on my case to prep the bikes & enter as many events as possible - racing weekends have become a way of life that we both thoroughly enjoy - each one is like a bike rally with racing thrown in as extra. Also demo events at Air Shows etc are a real laugh
Bet you thought the bike was the expensive bit!


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post #59 of 222 (permalink) Old 20th April 2014, 10:08 PM Thread Starter
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Well after some more reading about measuring squish and piston to valve clearance, I am going to remeasure everything again.

Some things I may have done wrong-

Solder was placed front to back on piston next I will try left to right, in relation to the bike. Front to back might cause piston rock.

Clay wasn't placed quite right, needed to be a little further to the outside of the piston.

I wont be able to get to this till next weekend most likely but I'm not in a hurry, I just want to make sure I get this done correctly.
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post #60 of 222 (permalink) Old 20th April 2014, 10:08 PM
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I would recommend using a bit thinner solder to start with. When it is too thick
it takes a great deal of force to compress and induces error in my experience. I have seen about 0.1-0.15mm errors before. If you average the front to rear numbers you get about 1.28mm and about 1.31mm If you subtract out what I would estimate to be the error induced by the thick solder it puts you in the range I would expect for a stock 03-04 engine. One engine I just measured recently gave me an average front to back of 1.25mm The variance can be from the direction the engine gets turned over to do the initial squish of the solder and also what cold be a slight crown height difference front to back.

Piston to valve number are really big in these motors with stock cams. With bigger cams and big ol pistons it is a different story...

How much do you mill? It is all in how much total compression you want to go with. You can go a higher total compression value if you keep the squish value a bit higher.

I would probably try to run squish at about 0.9mm and then mill the head to set the compression. Depending onhow much total you mill I would expect between a 1 and 2 degrees shift in cam timing. When the deck height gets lower the intake lobe center will get larger and the exhaust will get smaller.

Almost all the heads I have volumetrically checked run at 33.3 or 33.4ccs I also use a combustion chamber area number for calculations of volumetric shift after milling.

Also note that the after market head gaskets are slightly thicker, and certain aftermarket base gaskets are thicker and thinner.

-MS


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