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What is up with everyones flywheel magnets?

148K views 621 replies 106 participants last post by  Missing Link 
#1 ·
Two weeks ago, while at stop lights I noticed my mirrors had way more buzz to them than normal. I thought maybe my front fairing bracket was loose, but it was fine. I keep riding it and now I notice my hands are starting to get buzzed way more than they used to. I do a quick one over with torque wrench and engine mounts and other misc items, and they were all good. Next in line I figured I better check some internal engine things first like primary drive gear, clutch hub, mag rotor and such. I figure I can check the left side of the engine easier because I do not have to drain oil or water. I pop the cover off and guess what? All but one magnet had broken loose. This sucks, and luckily I have so much SV crap laying around on my shelves, I grabbed a box that had an 05 and up unit (much lighter than the 03-04 ones). I bolted it in and I am ready to go again. I have never seen such a frequent occurrence of this problem on a bike before. This happened on my 04 commuter machine with about 38K miles on it.

I guess I should consider myself lucky, the bike was still running, no magnets had broken or shattered and my oil is clean. I could see this causing major engine problems if I would have run it much longer.

-MS
 

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#383 ·
All,

Summary of what I’ve read in the forums on loose magnets in the flywheel/rotor:
* It happens to older and newer models, everywhere in the world where those motorbikes were sold.

* It happens mainly to Suzuki Vstrom DL1000 and Suzuki SV1000 models.

* There are cases where it already happend at 18.000 miles (29.000 km).

* There is at least on case where it happened twice, the replacement-part broke down again.

* There is at least one case where it happened during warranty and two times thereafter.

* One repair-shop has dealt with 8 cases, spread across DL and SV models.

* The 2014 model has a new flywheel/rotor with enclosed magnets (a better construction).

* The Suzuki GSX-R and Hayabusa have flywheel/rotors with enclosed magnets (a better construction).

* The TLR1000 is engine-wise the predecessor of the DL and SV. The 1999 TLR model had a flywheel/rotor with enclosed magnets (a better construction).

* Looking at the exact shape of the magnets, it is clear that these were designed to be used in an enclosed application.

* In the US there has been filed a complaint at the NHTSA (savecar.gov, https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml), because there is a chance that it may lead to life-threatening situations.

The response I got from Suzuki in the Netherlands was along the lines of: it is an incident, your bike is out of warranty, tough luck.

However, there is a life-expectancy for a product. I couldn’t find it fast, there seems to be a case brought to justice, where a television way out of warranty broke down (burned down) beyond repair. The judge determined that the owner should be compensated, because the average live-expectancy of a quality television-set is 10 years.

Every mechanic… actually I think everyone... can understand that only glueing the magnets to the rotor is an inferior construction, compared to one whereby the magnets are enclosed in a way they can’t come loose.
I’m trying to get some legal case together to seek for compensation.
 
#384 ·
However, there is a life-expectancy for a product. I couldn’t find it fast, there seems to be a case brought to justice, where a television way out of warranty broke down (burned down) beyond repair. The judge determined that the owner should be compensated, because the average live-expectancy of a quality television-set is 10 years.
In the U.S. this is a common law concept called an "implied warranty of merchantability" and it exists in every single state in the U.S. as far as I know.
 
#386 ·
Then it strikes me a bit as odd, that apparently nobody had a claim justified. Because all I've read on the vstrom and sv forums is that Suzuki declined for compensation.
What, you expected them to say "oh, fine, we're happy to shell out money to repair your bike even though it is out of warranty and you haven't proven that there is a defect that we should be responsible for"?

If you want them to pay to repair this defect for you, one of two things will have to happen.

Either a government body is going to have to force them to do so after receiving a bunch of complaints showing that this is a common, and dangerous, problem (i.e. a design/construction defect rather than a random rare problem.)

Or, someone is going to have to sue Suzuki and show that a bunch of other folks have had this problem.

For either to occur, a lot of folks who have had this problem need to cooperate. This hasn't happened. For instance, to the best of my knowledge only three people have filed a complaint with the NHTSA about this. That's not going to bring about a recall. And it's certainly not enough people to base a class action products liability case on.
 
#392 ·
J-B Weld
Tensile strength: 3960 PS
Temperature Resistance: 550ºF when fully cured.

Loctite 638
Shear Strength (N / mm2): 4,200 psi (29)
Temperature Resistance: 356°F (180°C)

Loctite 648
Shear Strength (N / mm2): 4,480 psi (31)
Temperature Resistance: 356°F (180°C)

Based on the above, I think I would still use JB Weld for the higher temp resistance. But I'm no mechanical engineer either.
 
#394 ·
Absolutely true for the oil temps. But, I still think the higher temp resistance of JB Weld would be beneficial. It's also oil resistant and being a little thicker in this case might help prevent the magnets from moving if the bond was to fail. The Loctite stuff does look like a very viable alternative but is harder to find locally and much pricier from what I have found from my limited research. Have you actually used it on a repair yet? I know that JB Weld has already been used and proven for this repair here on the forums. Not ruling the Loctite out, just looking for further feedback on it. What about the Loctite 648 stuff? Looks similar with better strength?
 
#395 ·
648 is more for close / press fits, 638 is more for loose / slip fits. Both can be used for our application.

648 will retain its initial strength in an oil soaked environment. 638, however, actually gets stronger. (From the TDS) 648 will retain 100% of its initial strength over a 1000 hour span at 120*C (257*F). These should be the typical oil temps also. 638 will have 175% of its initial strength at 500 hours and drop to 165% up to 5000 hours.

That's great and all, but what are the actual numbers? It's in a centrifuge of sorts with a lateral force with engine accel and decel. So, tensile strength isn't really that important; shear strength is though. Shear being the force of the flywheel pulling the magnet under accel or decel.

638 compressive shear strength is around 4k psi, whereas 648 is around 4.4k psi. That is after a 7 day cure. For a 24 hour cure, both are ~3600 psi. However, 638 gets harder over time, hence the 165% of initial strength. So, 648 remains ~4,000 psi, but 638 gets up to 6,000 psi compressive shear strength. Honestly, either of the two should work but 638 should be used since it's a loose fit (stuck to the wall, not pressed).

Compare this to JB Weld ... Shear strength is only 1040 psi @ 25*C, and 1840 psi @ 204*C for 3 hours. Significantly lower than either 638 or 648.

This is just what I gathered from the links below. Feel free to look them over and point out anything I may have overlooked.

https://tds.us.henkel.com/NA/UT/HNAUTTDS.nsf/web/1716575D28E43176882571870000D860/$File/648-EN.pdf

https://tds.us.henkel.com/NA/UT/HNAUTTDS.nsf/web/FB168836AB931A10882571870000D859/$File/638-EN.pdf

http://sosoil.co.za/wp-content/uploads/JB-Weld-TDS.pdf
 
#398 ·
Can you fill the gaps between magnets with the Loctite products like you can with JB Weld? We were thinking that filling will stabilize the whole group of magnets into a cohesive unit rather than 6 individuals working by themselves. Seems that one magnet always is the first to break loose, then it works on its' neighbors until finally everyone is moving around. Many find 5 loose with one still stubbornly stuck...so locking everyone together just seemed like a good idea. And JB Weld has proven to expand very similarly to aluminum whereas ? on the Loctite stuff? I'll have mine back apart this winter and will report on how it's holding up after close to 10K miles.
 
#399 ·
Loctite is meant for thin areas, not really filling gaps. That was the idea I had with the inserts (I'll update that later). It would have tabs that would fit between the magnets. You could use JB Weld as a filler but it will more than likely throw the flywheel out of balance. Something like an aluminum bar 6mm x 6mm x 35mm would work better. You can cut to fit the flywheel radius and balance each to the others and not worry about it.

If I did the conversion right, Loctite expands 3x less than aluminum (barely moves). Seems to me that this would be preferred since ceramics are so brittle. Someone should check this out since I'm not sure what units were used in that TDS. I'm assuming mm/*C.
 
#408 ·
Today I ordered a 32102-31J00 mag rotor for a 2014 DL1000A

We will see if it works. If it goes in and all is good and bike runs, I wil take it to my machinist to look at making it a bunch lighter.

I hope I didn't just waste a bunch of money...

-MS
 
#411 ·
I got my 2014 DL1000 mag rotor today! I now have a really expensive really heavy boat anchor...

The indicators all line up, it is way heavy and is wider but it appeared it might go right in and the stock stator could/would work but I would need to mount it.

I pulled out one of my spare engines that does not have a rotor on it. I slid it on the end of the crank and... (Insert any explicative of your choice) it bottoms out on the crank end. It won't work. The end of the 2014 DL1000 crank must be larger. If I were to machine the taper on the rotor deeper, I think it might bolt on, but now crank triggers are offset and the starter clutch would not go in.

So if any of you are in my neck of the woods you can all come by and pose for a picture with my expensive 9lb 7oz bling necklace for a small fee. Seriously, you would be then envy of all your friends

I can post a few images later on. I got a bunch of work to get done for folks now since I am out a pretty good chunk of change...

-ms
 
#413 ·
They will never need one since the magnets will never blow out.

If I end up building up an engine for a new DL, I could lighten it and install. A friend of a friend has already asked about possible hop up for his 2014. I would love to tear the heads and cylinders off one to check them out. I have several sets of +2mm over bore units for SVs so maybe they are bolt ins for the 100mm stock bore of the new DL?

Oh well, it is what it is.

-ms
 
#414 ·
Thanks for sharing this information at least. I'm sure you will be able to at least get your money back out of it. Or maybe you can take the material out of it and put it into the SV rotor that covers the magnets?

Too bad. So the taper is a larger diameter on the new DL huh?
 
#416 ·
Suzuki R&D should be reimburdsing MS for his efforts. Fedex an invoice to them for the cost of the part and a quick 'one-pager' on the appication of the part and your results.

you never know.. Why not throw in a few old rotors?

mmm... Why dont we ALL send them a few old rotors.? :devil2:
 
#418 · (Edited)
If we all made a noise they might hear?

I'd send them rotors - it'll be worth the shipping - as i rekon the cost to them of internal handling + disposal will be equal if not a lot more.

Think I'm gonna send at christmas for maximum irony - gift wrapped, and a card!!!

edited to add...

Take yer pick..... but for max effect mines off to head office.
(They wont have the facilities for handling/disposing so will at least have to ship halfway round JAPAN)

Head Office 300 TAKATSUKA-CHO, MINAMI-KU, HAMAMATSU-SHI, SHIZUOKA 432-8611 JAPAN Head office affairs

Yokohama Labo. 2-1, Sakuranamiki, Tsuzuki-ku, Yokohama-shi, Kanagawa Research and development
Motorcycle Technical Center 4935, Komaba, Iwata-shi, Shizuoka Testing and development of motorcycles
Shimokawa Proving Grounds 34, Sannohashi, Shimokawa-cho, Kamikawa-gun, Hokkaido Testing and development of motorcycles
Little victories indeed :)
 
#419 ·
Take yer pick..... but for max effect mines off to head office.
(They wont have the facilities for handling/disposing so will at least have to ship halfway round JAPAN)

Actually, the folks back in Japan might take this very seriously.

I remember years ago Toyota came out with a very sporty version of their Supra (about 1977):
http://all-toyota-images.info/wp-content/uploads/Toyota/Supra/147684009/Toyota_Supra_Red.JPG
My father bought one, and he loved it, but it had an unusual noise that came from the rear end. The local dealer couldn't explain/fix it. My father wrote to Toyota in Japan, and they actually sent engineers from Japan to check out his car!

It might be a good idea for folks to write to Japan about this problem. However, I *don't* recommend that everyone send their defective rotors. Photos should be sufficient. Plus, if you even need "proof" that your rotor was bad, or failed, if you no longer have it, it becomes hard to prove that it was defective.
 
#420 ·
Why not just buy the rest of the DL to go with it?
 
#424 ·
Will do for sure - I'm in that kind of mood.

Ship costs not too bad actually, I can get it there from london for 42 English Pounds, and considering the distance and mass - quite reasonable.

I have some old xmas paper and cards somewhere - any suggestions for the 'special message''?? :devil2:
 
#426 ·
I am still pretty irritated over having a rotor I can't do much with, but I figure I will still post up some pictures of the unit.

The taper as mentioned for the crank is different and is the main reason for the 2014 DL1000A rotor not to bolt up and be used.

Here are the values that are different

SV1000 Diameter of initial opening on back of rotor 35mm
SV1000 Diameter of the hole at the full depth of the taper 31
SV1000 Approximate depth of the tapered region into rotor 30mm

DL1000A Diameter of initial opening on back of rotor 37mm
DL1000A Diameter of the hole at the full depth of the taper 33
DL1000A Approximate depth of the tapered region into rotor 31.5mm

As mentioned before it looks like the new DL uses a bit larger crank nose on the magneto side. Oh well

And just for reference again here are the weights
2003-2004 SV1000 8.00lbs (3.63kg)
2005 and up SV1000 5.00lbs (2.27kg)
2014 DL1000A 9.44lbs (4.28kg)

-MS
 

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#431 ·
I am still pretty irritated over having a rotor I can't do much with, but I figure I will still post up some pictures of the unit.

The taper as mentioned for the crank is different and is the main reason for the 2014 DL1000A rotor not to bolt up and be used.
-MS
So, it appears that the bottom line is that ONLY the original part-numbers can be used to replace the rotor in f.e. a 2005 SV??!??!!!
Bummer.
That means I have to come up with a plan B to modify a new rotor to prevent the magnets from coming loose ever again. There is a plan B in the making... I will post results if I have them. At least, if the damage on my bike isn't beyond repair.
Or is it only for the 2003-2044SV? So that the rotor of the 2014 DL WILL fit on the 2005 SV? Anyone?
 
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