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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My 07 motor in 03 unholy frankenstein basterd has scant few miles on its motor, and no chudder.
If I ride like an old man, could I never have the chudder ?
The secondary question is - These used to happen on old 100cc 2 strokes in India that made all of 10 hp.
They would take the clutch basket out, drill the rivets out and re rivet them after truing the holes.
Is that what Werks does ? Or do they like replace the rivets with bolts ?
3 rivets seems anaemic for a 100hp bike.
 

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KNEE DRAGGER
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My 07 motor in 03 unholy frankenstein basterd has scant few miles on its motor, and no chudder.
If I ride like an old man, could I never have the chudder ?
The secondary question is - These used to happen on old 100cc 2 strokes in India that made all of 10 hp.
They would take the clutch basket out, drill the rivets out and re rivet them after truing the holes.
Is that what Werks does ? Or do they like replace the rivets with bolts ?
3 rivets seems anaemic for a 100hp bike.
Werks and VibeFreeVStrom have (or at least used to) have this all well explained on their sites.

The modification is much more extensive and includes machining the driven assembly and installing a much better fitting plain bearing.

The rivets get replaced with bolts. The size used is more than adequate when you look at the shock loading and sheer strength needed to support the torque load of the engine.

-ms
 

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Disturbed, very...
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....and the damper spring keepers are replaced with a much fimer arrangment to remove slap in the springs....that the reason the bolts are replaced...
And its not about how you ride, its about the rev range......if you keep it under 3k rpm you wont have an issue....you also wont get anywhere very quickly.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Keeper springs are stiffer ? Oh these are the horizontal ones in the basket, not the vertical ones between the basket and plates. I think they're called throw out springs right. So stiffer keeper springs available anywhere ? TBH it will be my first clutch work but I could also take it to a friend who's done a few of these jobs on a GS500.
 

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Vendor
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Nothing wrong with trying to do your own clutch work. That how I started and that developed into WERKS Clutch Baskets! There is a LOT more to building a WERKS modified clutch basket than is listed here. Not sure if John/Sharealike is still doing work as I have not heard anything from him in over a year.
I often hear from owners that take their basket apart and get lost in what they are doing. Unless you screw up something I can fix it. Don't even start if you don't have access to a lathe and the ability to maching a bronze 660 bushing and fit that into the basket....properly. That is the foundation of what needs done....and the rest has a view secrets that I don't share.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Oh wait, you're the guy that builds the WERKS baskets ? OMG, that's cool, now just because I can conceptualize something, doesn't mean I will (or even should). Most items like the raptor starter clutch I adapted to my MZ660 etc etc, I can make/build, but really not the best use of my time. I only build what is really not available. BTW I am making the gauge cluster bracket cos its NLA. If anyone were making it I'd buy it. Even if suzuki has it I'll buy that.
Bronze bushing - is that a teflon moly coated oleophilic one - I have made one of those for a Virago starter nose.
Anyway, any of these proprietary etc etc will not be proprietary once I see the part you make vs the one I sent out. However am I going to make it and compete with you - No, I clean up pretty good $$ in my day job/sss that its usually never ever worth my time. Besides srinath motorcycle parts sounds no where near as cool as WERKS.
 

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No special coatings...just the industry standard for bearing surfaces (660 Bronze) that I machine out of raw material. While there are some things I do that I don't show on the website, the real "secret" to a WERKS modified basket is the little things that only 10 years and 1700+ basket builds teach. Such as setting up the steel gear hub to about .0001" runout then machining the bearing surface to be concentric to the hub. Most factory bearings are off more than you would think! While there is a way to see what I do to a basket...that has been tried before. Didn't go as planned!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I've seen some of your videos on your site. Awesome work. Yea I've machined this and that, and no I'm not venturing anywhere near this, your work is awesome, no sense re inventing the wheel when you can pay $200 or 300 to get it dropped off at your door.
Now, I am running an 07 motor with scant few miles (970 or so) in an 03 frame. You figure I could lightly use it to shake down a few things before winter and I'll send off the basket to you - If you dont mind, I'd want my own basket done and returned, not a core off some one else's. You'll have a lot of time, I'm going to be out of the country for most of Jan and Feb 2023. So I'll say take your time, or send back when I'm back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
OMG, let me get it running and we'll talk, I cant even tell you how much the SV1K feeld like my favorite bike of all time - my GS500 but just more of it. But anyway, its an 07 motor and I'll do the rotor at the same time as the clutch.
 

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You can wait longer. If that only has a thousand miles or so that is. Figure 12,000 miles on SV's before they typically are showing wear issues.

@realshelby, out of interest do you know if current clutch baskets bought new from Suzuki are improved from the originals and hence expected to last longer or if they are still the same, flawed design?
I did see one post on another forum which seemed to indicate that this was the case (posted around 2014 IIRC) but then I've seen others from the same source at a similar time indicating that they were still as bad. Although the latter were related to clutches taken off bikes (OEM) rather than bought as spares so could have been older.

Reason I ask is that I have just replaced my basked with a new item but I'm thinking of having my original basked "upgraded" to future proof it, not worth doing if new parts are improved.
 

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@GDCobra, there have been several changes made on the production DL 1000/1050 baskets. All minor improvements. Even so, they still have the same basic design problem that causes chudder. Until they put a proper bearing in them and fix the inner spring plate design they will eventually do what these clutch baskets have done for years. It does take a wee bit longer on the newer DL versions to get loose, but they go downhill just as fast once they begin to loosen up.

The problem for SV owners is that Suzuki has not incorporated any of these design changes into the service replacement baskets for the SV 1000! Or the older DL 1000 for that matter. So when you buy a new OEM basket from Suzuki you are getting virtually the same basket that was in the last production SV 1000's. Since the SV has double damper springs to support the extra power, you cannot simply install the latest version DL 1050 basket to get those minor upgrades. So you are stuck with the old style which will start loosening up and give the problems they have since new.
 

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@GDCobra, there have been several changes made on the production DL 1000/1050 baskets. All minor improvements. Even so, they still have the same basic design problem that causes chudder. Until they put a proper bearing in them and fix the inner spring plate design they will eventually do what these clutch baskets have done for years. It does take a wee bit longer on the newer DL versions to get loose, but they go downhill just as fast once they begin to loosen up.

The problem for SV owners is that Suzuki has not incorporated any of these design changes into the service replacement baskets for the SV 1000! Or the older DL 1000 for that matter. So when you buy a new OEM basket from Suzuki you are getting virtually the same basket that was in the last production SV 1000's. Since the SV has double damper springs to support the extra power, you cannot simply install the latest version DL 1050 basket to get those minor upgrades. So you are stuck with the old style which will start loosening up and give the problems they have since new.
Thanks @realshelby, that's disappointing, particularly after what I read a little while ago (which I can't find now - Maybe I dreampt it). I'll probably look at improving my original basket over the winter and then sell on this new one. Or maybe get the new one modified instead, will only have a couple of thousand miles on (at most) by then.

Even with the new basket in the engine seems to be working hard between 2500-3000RPM, I guessing this is a speed where some forces are working together and probably forcing that damper to work overtime. This is not a problem and nothing like as bad as it was before the change, I'm assuming that this is part the engine's "character" although without riding others I've no way to tell.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hand built and machined by a skilled technician is far far far superior to mass produced. But if suzuki were to do that to all the defective failure prone parts of all their bikes, rotors, clutches, etc etc the bike would cost 100K. The cost of an item is directly dependent on the number of machined components. I would do a similar thing to the rotor as my preferred solution, by bolting on neodymium magnets to the wall but again, suzuki doing that would raised their cost by over $1000. Mass production and upgrade by user is usually far better for the user in terms of $$$ and you get what you want, someone might want a billet triple, someone else might want a billet case cover etc etc.
Anyway I've seen a few videos of people doing the clutch themselves, as well as what werks does, yea doable - but concluded I'll be sending it to WERKS. The rotor, no one does anything like what I have in mind, so that I'll attempt.
 

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Hand built and machined by a skilled technician is far far far superior to mass produced.
Not always true, mass production methods can quite ofter improve quaility while "craftsman produced" parts may be over-engineered for their purpose hence increasing cost un-necessarily.
It should be possible to produce this item to give acceptable performance for an acceptable lifetime but in this case it just doesn't make it. Either way I don't mind getting involved with it, in fact part of the reason I got this bike was to have a play with it. Ideally this would be during the winter months however!
I will probably start by stripping my original unit down, I've made up a fixture to remove the rivets this afternoon. Once I've done that I'll make a decision. Outwardly the clutch basket looks good, the only thing I can find wrong with it is movement between the Aluminium and Steel components if I really pull on them. Based on the feeling I was getting from the engine I was expecting it to be in several pieces. this is one of the benefits of doing this job, it has given me a lot more confidence in the bike being well looked after in its 17 years and 25k miles as I've found no "nasties" so far.
 
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