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Disturbed, very...
2003 SV1000S
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2,018 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Opinion sought.....
Have a GSXR front end with Tokico (no hate please...ha ha) calipers.
The front pads are wearing very quickly, and i have found that the brakes are dragging.
The master cylinder is not overfull, I have removed the calipers and pumped the pistons out a little
and washed them thoroughly, turning them to get all round. Pushed the pistons all the way in and drained out the
reservoir, refilled with fresh fluid and before pumping the calipers up i allowed the fresh fluid through the bleeders.
Then went through the whole bleed process. Pumps up a treat. Still got dragging brakes.

Is it presumable that the calipers need a kit, and that the seals are not "pulling back" on the pistons, but instead
holding them in the "on" position?
 

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KNEE DRAGGER
Joined
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5,238 Posts
Opinion sought.....
Have a GSXR front end with Tokico (no hate please...ha ha) calipers.
The front pads are wearing very quickly, and i have found that the brakes are dragging.
The master cylinder is not overfull, I have removed the calipers and pumped the pistons out a little
and washed them thoroughly, turning them to get all round. Pushed the pistons all the way in and drained out the
reservoir, refilled with fresh fluid and before pumping the calipers up i allowed the fresh fluid through the bleeders.
Then went through the whole bleed process. Pumps up a treat. Still got dragging brakes.

Is it presumable that the calipers need a kit, and that the seals are not "pulling back" on the pistons, but instead
holding them in the "on" position?


Which exact front end and calipers are you using? Some years GSX-R with radial mount calipers were not dowel pinned and can be easily misaligned causing uneven pad wear which then causes drag.

When were the calipers last rebuilt? Even if clean, if the calipers have old seals, think about the dirt and heat cycling they have seen in their life.

Are you by chance using EBC pads? I pretty much refuse to install EBC regular HH pads anymore because they typically have heavy drag and potato chip after being hot so they drag even more.

Make sure the master cylinder you are using is clean and healthy inside. I also see poor quality aftermarket levers cause drag all the time because they are allowing the master piston to fully retract properly.

-ms
 

·
Disturbed, very...
2003 SV1000S
Joined
·
2,018 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Which exact front end and calipers are you using? .......................
When were the calipers last rebuilt?......................
Are you by chance using EBC pads? .....................
Make sure the master cylinder you are using is clean and healthy inside...........................
-ms

05-06 calipers, dowelled ones......
Yeah, next question..... (This Saturday just gone now.....) Were clean as a whistle inside, but the pistons were really stuck.
Not EBC.... using Ferodo ST (HH) pads.... Because of the dragging they are a little frayed around he edges and heat affected, but otherwise evenly worn.
THe MC is 2 years old .....its actually a revision kit i found brand new in box. The early Nissin radials got corrosion in them...this is a fixer, the ol one i put an All Balls kits in
and it was a lot better for a while, until the corrosion damaged the cup. Question on the All Balls kit, it had a longer spring in it, and i was a bit doubtful about using it, so i used the
OEM spring.....did AB use a loner stiffer spring to ensure a good return vacuum on the fluid ?
Considering a kit for this one.

First ride impression is that when releasing the brakes, the suspension returns very quickly, points to the brakes keep ing the front end squatted i think.
Steering is more nimble obviously because of less gyro effect. But, the standard radial sytem is a b.i.t.c.h. to get all the air out, and the lever was soft this morning.
Putting the new discs on tonight when they arrive and will sort the air issue out then.
 

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KNEE DRAGGER
Joined
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5,238 Posts
05-06 calipers, dowelled ones......
Yeah, next question..... (This Saturday just gone now.....) Were clean as a whistle inside, but the pistons were really stuck.
Not EBC.... using Ferodo ST (HH) pads.... Because of the dragging they are a little frayed around he edges and heat affected, but otherwise evenly worn.
THe MC is 2 years old .....its actually a revision kit i found brand new in box. The early Nissin radials got corrosion in them...this is a fixer, the ol one i put an All Balls kits in
and it was a lot better for a while, until the corrosion damaged the cup. Question on the All Balls kit, it had a longer spring in it, and i was a bit doubtful about using it, so i used the
OEM spring.....did AB use a loner stiffer spring to ensure a good return vacuum on the fluid ?
Considering a kit for this one.

First ride impression is that when releasing the brakes, the suspension returns very quickly, points to the brakes keep ing the front end squatted i think.
Steering is more nimble obviously because of less gyro effect. But, the standard radial sytem is a b.i.t.c.h. to get all the air out, and the lever was soft this morning.
Putting the new discs on tonight when they arrive and will sort the air issue out then.
Ahh. Good info.

One note. I refuse to install any aftermarket caliper or master kits. I have yet to see one that is the quality of OEM. I have seen all kinds of issues.

I am not understanding if you replaced the caliper seals though. Even if clean, fresh seals can make a big difference. Also note I often replace pistons in some customer stuff because someone has scrubbed heavily with abrasive of some flavor and damaged he surface coatings which at as a lubricant in the seals also. Not all are coated but many are.

What lever?

I actually find those systems pretty easy to bleed.

There are a couple of tricks about those calipers though. I think you have my email address? Ping me there if you like.

-ms
 

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Disturbed, very...
2003 SV1000S
Joined
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2,018 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes, an All Balls kit went in to them.... The pistons were mint. Used All Balls twice before without any probs, so am willing to rick it, and the price....i know a guy....
I stupidly regular abut fluid changes, and run Motul RBF660 high temp fluid.
Aftermarket lever, and i removed it after referencing the position of the push rod, no movement on the rod at all....meaning zero pressure on it after install.
I had a bit of spnginess this AM, but i put a zip-tie on the lever for an hour and came back to a perfect lever.... let any bubbles out....woo hoo...

New wheel bearings, disc and pads tonight
 

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Disturbed, very...
2003 SV1000S
Joined
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2,018 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Pad and disc in, all good there..
Thought the zip tire method had worked, but no, after a few minutes, the same thing was happening....maybe its time for a kit in there
Well......wacked a master cylinder kit in and the net effect is zero.....may as well have not bothered.
I have zero air that i can find in the system, used every method i know to get rid of it.....
If i pump the brakes, the second sqeeze, i get a good lever, but it goes back to a long pull straight after...
 

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KNEE DRAGGER
Joined
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5,238 Posts
Pad and disc in, all good there..
Thought the zip tire method had worked, but no, after a few minutes, the same thing was happening....maybe its time for a kit in there
Well......wacked a master cylinder kit in and the net effect is zero.....may as well have not bothered.
I have zero air that i can find in the system, used every method i know to get rid of it.....
If i pump the brakes, the second sqeeze, i get a good lever, but it goes back to a long pull straight after...
PM sent.
 

·
Disturbed, very...
2003 SV1000S
Joined
·
2,018 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Nothing mentioned about age of brake line? I have seen these deteriorate internally and block the return flow of fluid back from caliper.
4 years, braided lines....

The hallowed Mr schmidt314 gave me a little bit of an idea on how to find that extra bit of lever overnight and it worked amazingly.
 
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