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Okay, here is my situation;
I have a 2005 SV1000s with what I believe is the famous clutch basket rattle. I have investigated extensively and it seems I have all the symptoms. I do not believe it is the Idle Hammer as the noise only happens at idle with clutch disengaged. Now, I am trying to sell the bike and had 3 people ready to buy and walk away due to the noise.

Symptoms:
At Idle, the bike clutch rattles pretty loud.
Pull the clutch lever in slightly and noise goes away.
Above 2000 rpm, in neutral, noise goes away.
Put in gear, noise disappears.

Took it to the dealer twice and was told "There is nothing wrong, but it can be corrected. However it will be very costly for a fix when there is nothing wrong with the bike. If I could live with the noise, I don't have anything to worry about." Now the problem is selling to someone else. So now, after 3 people hearing the noise and walking away, I have to fix it or try and make it better.

Speaking to another person, he mentioned that it is also possible air was introduced into my fluid. But I changed the fluid and still get the noise.

So far, the only thing I have tried is replacing clutch fluid. When I go online, I see a mod for welding the clutch springs in place to prevent excessive movement. I do not want to chance this as it may not be the problem, and I cannot weld. HOWEVER, a friend of mine just had this exact noise on his DR 650. He brought it to a dealer (Because it was still under warranty), and they discovered a nut in the clutch basket had backed off just enough to make the noise. It was fixed with a little tweek.

Has anyone come across this with their bike, or does anyone have any instructions on how to repair or at least make this problem better without getting too costly or complicated?
The only thing I can find is about extensive fixes and I am sure after my friends experience, it may just be a quick inexpensive tweek. I do not want to get into serious and possibly expensive fixes since I am selling. Thank you for your response.
 

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Okay, here is my situation;
I have a 2005 SV1000s with what I believe is the famous clutch basket rattle. I have investigated extensively and it seems I have all the symptoms. I do not believe it is the Idle Hammer as the noise only happens at idle with clutch disengaged. Now, I am trying to sell the bike and had 3 people ready to buy and walk away due to the noise.

Symptoms:
At Idle, the bike clutch rattles pretty loud.
Pull the clutch lever in slightly and noise goes away.
Above 2000 rpm, in neutral, noise goes away.
Put in gear, noise disappears.

Took it to the dealer twice and was told "There is nothing wrong, but it can be corrected. However it will be very costly for a fix when there is nothing wrong with the bike. If I could live with the noise, I don't have anything to worry about." Now the problem is selling to someone else. So now, after 3 people hearing the noise and walking away, I have to fix it or try and make it better.

So far, the only thing I have tried is replacing clutch fluid. Did nothing. When I go online, I see a mod for welding the clutch springs in place to prevent excessive movement. I do not want to chance this as it may not be the problem, and I cannot weld. HOWEVER, a friend of mine just had this exact noise on his DR 650. He brought it to a dealer (Because it was still under warranty), and they discovered a nut in the clutch basket had backed off just enough to make the noise. It was fixed with a little tweek.

Has anyone come across this with their bike, or does anyone have any instructions on how to repair or at least make this problem better?
The only thing I can find is about extensive fixes and I am sure after my friends experience, it may just be a quick inexpensive tweek. I do not want to get into serious and possibly expensive fixes since I am selling. Thank you for your response.

Don't hack a welded up fix if the noise is the "chudder", just get it fixed correctly, or find a low mile used basket. Email John "sharealike" at [email protected]

There have been several owner have issues with the primary gear nut coming loose too. this can cause quite a bit of noise also.
http://www.sv-portal.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23332

-MS
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks shmidt. I have heard of the primary gear nut also. I am going to be disassembling the clutch soon to investigate further. I just need to get new oil and gaskets before I start. Hopefully this is the issue. Thanks for the link. I hope this is the issue and can be fixed quickly.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So I got the engine apart and the clutch is out. (Not as hard as I thought to disassemble but what a mess I made)
I did the old move it with my bare hands test and as predicted, it took two hands to move it but it has quite a bit of play. Had a good look inside. Everything is clean, no metal shavings in the engine and nothing worn or no damage that I can see. I suspect the springs are worn but need special pliers to disassemble further to get at the springs. Will get the tool tomorrow and proceed. I may get away with shimming the springs with washers, or if not too costly, will just order a new set.
Now my question is, since it does take a bit of force with both hands is it supposed to have some play? I am thinking no.
Also, I checked the primary bolt just top right side of it like you suggested. It has two gears on it. The bolt does not seem loose, but the outside gear (with the clutch basket out) also has play. About half a tooth. But I am not sure that is normal. With the clutch basket in, the gears are held together pretty tight. If not normal, this could very well be the problem.
Can you verify this for me? Thanks.
 

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The primary gear is split and uses springs to apply pressure on both faces of the gear to eliminate any clearance. Make sure that you follow the manual when reinstalling the clutch basket so that the primary gear is preloaded. I did the mod on my basket years ago and have not had any issues since.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The primary gear is split and uses springs to apply pressure on both faces of the gear to eliminate any clearance. Make sure that you follow the manual when reinstalling the clutch basket so that the primary gear is preloaded. I did the mod on my basket years ago and have not had any issues since.
Hmmm, this makes me wonder if it was not preloaded to begin with and is the reason for the chudder. It makes sense if you think about it due to noise going away as soon as you apply pressure on the clutch. Either way, I need a new or good used basket now. Thanks for the heads up on the install.
 

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You are describing the infamous clutch chudder to aT... I had same issue on my 06.. But i have to say,,I had the WERKS basket mod done, it was cheap, the service was unbelievable great, had my basket back in 6 days and was done very well, great quality work... By far the best Money I've spent on the bike to date, including the Money i spent buying the bike! It's truly amazing! Better than new! Be Carefull tho, if you do it, you may not want to sell it!
 

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You are describing the infamous clutch chudder to aT... I had same issue on my 06.. But i have to say,,I had the WERKS basket mod done, it was cheap, the service was unbelievable great, had my basket back in 6 days and was done very well, great quality work... By far the best Money I've spent on the bike to date, including the Money i spent buying the bike! It's truly amazing! Better than new! Be Carefull tho, if you do it, you may not want to sell it!
 

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Sorry bout the double post, idk how that happened!
A new basket is about the same price as a modified basket, and will be back with in a few thousand miles, they did only slighty improve the new ones, but did not address the issue fully, they sell alot of them, and surely like the money from the sales..
A used basket, will almost surely have the issue,, and ive not seen one for less then 2bills as of yet..
 

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So I got the engine apart and the clutch is out. (Not as hard as I thought to disassemble but what a mess I made)
I did the old move it with my bare hands test and as predicted, it took two hands to move it but it has quite a bit of play. Had a good look inside. Everything is clean, no metal shavings in the engine and nothing worn or no damage that I can see. I suspect the springs are worn but need special pliers to disassemble further to get at the springs. Will get the tool tomorrow and proceed. I may get away with shimming the springs with washers, or if not too costly, will just order a new set.
Now my question is, since it does take a bit of force with both hands is it supposed to have some play? I am thinking no.
Also, I checked the primary bolt just top right side of it like you suggested. It has two gears on it. The bolt does not seem loose, but the outside gear (with the clutch basket out) also has play. About half a tooth. But I am not sure that is normal. With the clutch basket in, the gears are held together pretty tight. If not normal, this could very well be the problem.
Can you verify this for me? Thanks.
Make sure you check the torque specs on the primary nut-mine wsa not loose to the touch however it was NOT to the factory spec of 83ft lbs...maybe 15 if I had to guess. After tightening it there was a WORLD of difference!
 

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While im not an sv guru yet, i can tell you from my experiance, and what ive read,,that the springs are not worn, the basket, and the spring retainer plates are whats worn allowing it to move in the way you described.. And no,, its not supposed to have any play.

The gears will have some play, and what you describe sounds normal.
that split gear preloads everything to to remove that lash you speak of once its all together as a "system"..

The washers.... From what ive read, there have been mixed results..
Some have ended up with broken springs, or broken washers as a result, and that can make things catastrophic, as metal chunks in engines tend to do.
Another thing ive heard from the washer thing,, is that it only moves the chudder up the rpm band.. Ie, it used to happen at 3.5k,, now its at 6k, because the washers may help the rotational play you saw, they do nothing for the baskets sad factory hub tolerance that has been exacerbated by that rotational slop, wearing on the baskets center and that causes it to vibrate from being off the center of the hub,,and out of balance..
Im also pretty sure, there no way to remove springs, with out drilling out retainer plate rivets, i could be wrong tho.
 

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While im not an sv guru yet, i can tell you from my experiance, and what ive read,,that the springs are not worn, the basket, and the spring retainer plates are whats worn allowing it to move in the way you described.. And no,, its not supposed to have any play.

The gears will have some play, and what you describe sounds normal.
that split gear preloads everything to to remove that lash you speak of once its all together as a "system"..

The washers.... From what ive read, there have been mixed results..
Some have ended up with broken springs, or broken washers as a result, and that can make things catastrophic, as metal chunks in engines tend to do.
Another thing ive heard from the washer thing,, is that it only moves the chudder up the rpm band.. Ie, it used to happen at 3.5k,, now its at 6k, because the washers may help the rotational play you saw, they do nothing for the baskets sad factory hub tolerance that has been exacerbated by that rotational slop, wearing on the baskets center and that causes it to vibrate from being off the center of the hub,,and out of balance..
Im also pretty sure, there no way to remove springs, with out drilling out retainer plate rivets, i could be wrong tho.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Well, I have gone thru all avenues. A new basket sets me back around $450.00, a modded shearalike about $400.00 due to shipping, and a used one, about the same.
Since the problem I have found is that the top half that is riveted together to the bottom half is actually sliding about half a centimeter(after inspecting, it was manufactured with larger holes for the springs causing slipping), I have decided the only fix is to do the weld. I am taking it to a welding professional to ensure it is done properly.
I do not want to risk buying a basket with the same problem. Plus I am done with this problem. I sent Suzuki pictures with proof that it is a manufacture error and demanded they fix the problem with negative results.
Worst case scenario, I have to buy a new basket. Best case, the problem will be permanently fixed.
Needless to say, as much as I love the bike, I am done with Suzuki. Wish me luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
You may very well be correct. This is why I am hesitating on the welding mod. It should eliminate any movement in the two sections, but I am worried more about metal breaking off in the engine.
I did try one other thing, which is much safer and may help. It eliminates any linear movement, but still has radial movement between the sections.
I put a 2 inch gasket in the center. This way, if it breaks down, rubber will not do any damage to the engine as metal would.
In the shearalike design, he uses a machined copper o ring to stabilize the hub. Difference is that this does not go all the way through, and it is a 30 cent o-ring.
However, when I put the clutch back together, I still had the radial play back and fourth. So I don't think this achieved anything.
Here are some pics.
EDITED - I forgot to mention that most of the springs are loose. This may be normal but They rattle a little when you shake it. I don't think this is normal. You can move them with your finger. There are two that are flush and have no movement. You can probably see better in the next pick how the springs are not flush with the basket.
I also checked the primary gear nut as you mentioned. It was not backed off but I did get about 1/4 turn on it with the torque wrench. If it still chudders after all this, I am selling the way it is and cutting my losses.
 

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Deleted....didn't see the second page of responses and Schmidt314 covered it.

But now that I'm thinking about it...are you SURE you're not trying to fix what can't be fixed? I mean....the SV1K at idle DOES tend to make a bit of knocking, ticking, whining, thrashing ect. with the clutch contributing 'some' to the cacophony, but it certainly isn't ALL of it. At least mine, with a brand new basket, isn't/wasn't quiet and working the clutch lever changed the sound a bit.

While you have the clutch to bits, take a look at the BTL and see if it isn't a bit loose too? These NEED to have some clearances to work, and just like the clutch if you get things too tight...they might not work as intended. But my BTL had a 'thrashing' type sound and definitely added vibrations to the mix...before it was replaced with the hub from the DL-1000 which solved all those problems. Now the basket has over 10K miles and is still working fine...all of these without the BTL working like a paint-shaker inside it.

Normal folks not familiar with SV1K's might be VERY hard to sell one to! Especially if they're expecting it to be vibe free and quiet. Bought my bike new...and it's been mechanically loud since. When fully hot, there is a hollow knocking sound that happens only at tick-over, but again this is completely normal for the machines. Remember it has an uneven firing-order and things get pushed back and forth as the big jugs fire in their odd cadence. I wouldn't be critical about it unless it can be heard over 2000 rpms...and the engine makes SO much noise that something would have to be BAD to sound up over the rest of the din.:)

Do you have any Portal Members in the area that could maybe lend an ear to see if what you're trying to fix isn't something that's normal? Maybe direct potential customers here and we'll set them straight about what a cracking great bike this is and to not worry about a little chatter. It sure isn't going to be whisper quiet...that's for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hey Recoil.
Actually, after closer inspection of the clutch basket, and the fact that it does take some effort to move it back and fourth with both hands, in addition to the small amount of play I do get, I got a feeling this is unfixable. I have seen some videos of clutches with the chudder and my basket does not move as bad as the videos.
As mentioned, the only reason I got to this point, is due to 3 people walking away from the sale because they were uncomfortable with the noise. I had to do something.
I have decided to fore go the weld (Could make matters worse) and put it all back together. With the addition of the gasket, and retourque of primary gear and other bolts, who knows, I may have at the very least made it a little better. Not to mention putting new fresh oil in when done. At least the gasket will aid the center bearings and prevent any linear movement.
I also suspected my BTL as it is the K3 model basket and still think it may be some of the noise, but there is no way to fix this that I can see. It also looks in good shape. No evidence of scoring or damage. But I can see how this would cause some rattling. Only thing holding it down is the springs. Unless you know of a way, I am open to suggestions before I put the cover back on.
I can also be honest when I sell it and tell them there are no mods to the engine. That I just inspected the clutch with no evidence of problems. At least they will know the oil and coolant are fresh.
Maybe if I was going to keep the bike, I would do it, but I don't want to sell something that could cause someone harm later.
Thanks guys for talking me out of it.
 

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You could always weld the BTL....many have. That makes a great improvement in how the clutch can be slipped, but be sure to weld it in the 'engaged' position. Otherwise, you'd need to put heavier springs in it to apply the proper force so it won't slip.

I changed out JUST the hub on mine, and it was like 'nite and day' different afterwards. It had a niggling vibration just sometimes that completely went away getting the wobbly BTL device the heck out of there. Suzuki tries to say it's a 'Back torque limiter' like it's a slipper wanna-be, but I think the reality of using it on the SV (and Busa) was to make the clutch effort really light...which it does. For the size of the clutch in this bike...the stock effort is really easy. With DL hub kit, the effort goes up a bunch, but it's not something that is a problem....you just notice it at first. If someone wasn't familiar with the bike...they'd never notice it has a stiff lever.

Only other thing I can think that might help you would be thicker oil would cushion things and take up some play. I run 20w-50 in the heat of summer (well, I did..but summer isn't coming here this year) and it runs a little quieter and smoother I think. Otherwise, get your prospects to log onto here and we'll set'em straight.:)
 
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