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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm searching for a replacement shock for my '03 SV1000S and have been shopping primarily on the basis of spring rate. I've been looking at Kawi and Suzuki shocks from the following bikes and this is what I've found on Racetech's site:

SV1000S
'03-'07 - 8.0kg/mm - 447lb/in, 45-degree reservoir, right side

ZX10R
'08 - Unknown, 20-degree reservoir (close to perpendicular), right side
'06-'07 - 8.3kg/mm - 464lb/in, 90-degree reservoir, left side
'04-'05 - 10.0kg/mm - 559lb/in, 45-degree reservoir, right side

GSX-R1000
'07-'08 - 10.1kg/mm - 565lb/in, 70-degree reservoir, (close to perpendicular), right side
'05-'06 - 8.1kg/mm - 453lb/in, 45-degree reservoir, left side
'03-'04 - 8.6kg/mm - 481lb/in 45-degree reservoir, left side

GSX-R750
'06-'08 - 9.5kg/mm - 531lb/in, 70-degree reservoir, (close to perpendicular)
'04-'05 - 7.3kg/mm - 408lb/in

ZX6R
'06-'08 - 9.2kg/mm - 515lb/in, 45-degree reservoir, left side
'05-'06 - 9.7kg/mm - 543lb/in

ZX14
'06-'08 - 9.7kg/mm - 543lb/in, 90-degree reservoir, left side

I've tried the ZX14 shock on my '03 SV650S and SV1000S and while the spring is plenty firm, the shock is underdamped. I weigh about 215lbs in gear and have 1.05kg/mm springs and 10wt oil up front. Mid-corner bumps and dips will make the back end of either bike pogo, even with the compression and rebound damping set to 1/4 out from full stiff. Sag is somewhere in the 1" range, so the spring rate is acceptable, but the damping is not. The front end on both SVs feels reasonably well planted.

I found that the '07-'08 GSX-R1000 shock has a slightly heavier spring than the ZX14 shock, but it also has high and low speed damping settings, and I am reasonably confident that it will have a better range of damping than the ZX14 shock. However, several SVP members have mentioned that the Gixxer shock is shorter than stock. I already ordered one on Ebay so I guess I'll find out for sure myself.

(The '08 ZX10R shock has the same high and low speed adjustments as the Gixxer shock so it may be worth consideration, but I have no idea what its spring rate is.)

Which brings me to the next important point. Beyond spring and damping rates, one must also consider overall shock height. Does anyone have a definitive source for that info?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
The stock SV1000S shock appears to be 12 13/16 inches from the center of the top eyelet to the center of the bottom eyelet. The ZX14 shock I have matches that length identically (or is at least close enough that I can't tell the difference).

I had originally thought that the reservoir location doesn't matter on an SV1000S shock like it does on an SV650 (whose battery tray gets in the way of most shock reservoirs except for low-angled ones like the ZX14 shock) but it appears that it does. The ZX14 and '03 GSX-R1000 shocks I have both have their reservoirs jutting out of the left side of the shock, as viewed from the rear of the bike facing forward. The SV1000 shock reservoir juts out to the right.

I was able to get the ZX14 shock in with some wiggling. I just tried installing the '03 Gixxer shock tonight and it was a bit too much trouble. The Gixxer's reservoir is at a 45-degree angle to the shock, just like the stock SV's shock, and in contrast to the ZX14's reservoir which is perpendicular to the shock. But since the Gixxer's shock points toward the wrong side, it was bumping into the frame and/or rear header when trying to install it. After about 20 minutes of wiggling, I gave up as I wasn't willing to invest too much effort installing the shock since I doubt I'll want to keep it on the bike. (I'm sure I could have gotten it on, had I started unbolting more than just the dogbones.)

I'm going to add reservoir angle and side to my chart above.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I just installed an '07 GSX-R750 shock on my SV1000. Despite its spring rate being softer than that of a ZX14 shock, it feels stiffer. I never measured sag when I had the ZX14 shock installed, but with the Gixxer shock on, it's only about 15/16ths of an inch. I just took the bike for a short ride down the street and the 750 shock doesn't seem to feel overly harsh so it may yet be promising despite the lack of sag. The reservoir aims to the left of the bike, but is far enough away from the rear exhaust header that heat soak should be any more of a problem than it is for the stock SV shock.

I set the high and low speed compression settings to the Sport Rider recommended settings, but set the rebound damping to .25 turns out from full stiff. I figure with a spring this stiff, compression damping will be sufficient without cranking down too much on the adjusters, but rebound damping will need some help to combat the stiff spring.

In addition, the GSX-R750 and 1000 shocks are both noticeably shorter than the stock SV shock. I used a set of 1" raising links when I installed the 750 shock, and ride height is now about 1/2" taller than it was with the SV shock. I may back off the preload to lower the rear down a bit, but it looks like I'll have to remove the shock to be able to do that easily. There is not much room to get a hammer and screwdriver in there to loosen up the shock collars. I have a pair of motorcycle shock spring compressors so I can use them to unload the shock and then adjust the preload by hand.

I was thinking about trying the GSX-R1000 shock on my SV1000 but at 565 lbs/inch, it's 34 lbs/inch stiffer than the GSX-R750 shock, and I think that will just be way too stiff for the SV1000.

However, I currently have a Penske with a 550 lbs/inch spring on my SV650 and its back end feels reasonably compliant and with a sufficient amount of sag. (I haven't measured it yet but will do so before I tinker any further with its back end.) The GSX-R1000 shock will only be incrementally stiffer than the spring currently in place, so I will give that a shot. (For some reason, the SV650's stock shock has a much higher spring rate than the SV1000's stock shock, although I don't recall the exact number.) The only reason I'm still swapping shocks on the 650 is that if I can find a $70 shock I'm happy with, I can sell the Penske for quite a bit more than that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I backed off the preload all the way on the GSX-R750 shock on my SV1000 but that didn't make a lick of difference on sag.

I also installed the GSX-R1000 shock on my SV650. It feels about as firm as the 750 shock does on my 1000, which is to say pretty damn stiff. I bought a set of raising links for the 650 but decided to try the bike without them as my wife rides it and she'd appreciate the lower seat height. The GSX-R1000 shock lowers ride height by about 1" in the rear.

Sag with the 1000 shock on my 650 was about the same as on my SV1000--between 7/8" and 15/16". Strangely, with the Penske and its 550lb spring installed, sag was around 1.5". I'm surprised I have so much less sag with the Gixxer shock when the spring rate is barely changed.

I'll make my decision on both of these shocks over the next few days when I get to take them out for a backroads test ride.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
As I'd mentioned before, the GSX-R750 and GSX-R1000 shocks are noticeably shorter than stock. I bought a 1" raising set of dogbones for my SV1000, but they actually result in the rear being raised a half inch taller than stock. To maintain stock ride height, you'll need a half inch raising set of dogbones. Here is the link to a seller on Ebay with that item:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...Track=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:us

I haven't decided for sure if I'm going to purchase these or not. If I like the GSX-R750 shock then I'll probably buy them, but if I decided to go with something of another ride height (hopefully closer to stock), then I won't. If the GSX-R750 shock is still too stiff on the SV1000, then I'll try it out on the SV650 and shop for something else for the SV1000.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Alright, I need a little help from the suspension gurus of the forum. I took my SV1000 for a test ride with the GSX-R750 shock installed. When I first mounted the shock, I took a look at Sport Rider's recommended settings for this shock when installed on an '06 GSX-R750. They were:

High-speed compression damping: 3 turns out from full stiff
Low-speed compression damping: 1.75 turns out from full stiff
Rebound damping: 1.5 turns out from full stiff
Preload: 3mm thread showing

I like lots of rebound damping so I set rebound to .25 turn out from full stiff. I measured sag, and it was only about 7/8". I backed the preload adjuster out all the way but still ended up with under an inch of sag. I left the rest of the settings at the SR recommended numbers.

For reference, I weigh about 210lbs in gear. I've got 1.05kg springs and 10wt oil in the forks, and have compression damping set to 1 turn out and rebound damping set to .25 turn out. The front end feels pretty planted.

I took the bike out for a ride this afternoon. WOW, talk about a punishing ride! One road had a bunch of ridges about one second apart at 45mph, and I felt like my kidneys were taking a beating. I took a few corners, and with me getting my ass off the seat, the bike felt reasonably well planted, albeit a bit jittery.

At that point, I figured it must have too much high-speed compression damping, given the back-breaking ride, so I backed off 1/2 turn. (By the way, I want to make sure I'm clear on which adjuster is high-speed compression and which one is low. I assumed that the little screw-head adjuster was high-speed compression but after some reading, came to the conclusion that it's actually low-speed damping, and the 14mm nut is low-speed damping. Is that correct?) I took the same corners again, and the back end felt less nervous.

I figured that was a step in the right direction, so I backed off another 1/2 turn, making HSCD 4 turns out from full stiff. Suddenly the back of the bike was wallowy and my confidence dropped off markedly. At that point, I went back to 3.5 turns out for HSCD, and it was better but not "good"--not nervous and not wallowy, but not really controlled-feeling either, if that makes any sense.

So I'm trying to figure out if I can even get this shock set "right" or if I should give up on it. The biggest problem is the stiffness of the spring. The stock SV shock is 447lb/in and the Gixxer's shock is 531lb/in. In other words, the spring is probably too stiff. This is made apparent by the lack of sag. Since the spring is so stiff, I'm pretty sure I need plenty of rebound damping to keep the spring from rebounding took quickly. Problem is that I can't go any stiffer on the rebound damping. I also can't really adjust the HSCD any more--at 3 turns out, it's bone-jarring and at 4 turns out, it's wallowy, and at 3.5 turns, it's better but not good. I am not sure if it's worth tinkering with LSCD or if I should just yank this shock and go with something else.

So, based on my observations and assumptions, does anyone have any suggestions? Are my baseline shock settings, and the changes I've made to them based on my assumptions of how they will affect the feel of the shock valid choices, or am I in left field? Does it sound like I can make this shock not only work but work well for me, or should I try something else?

Thanks!!
 

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Low speed is the slot in the centre
High speed comp is the larger nut

whats yuor static and dynamic sag?
You say you had 7/8" sag - is this dynamic or loaded?

This is what you should be aiming for
Road bikes
SAG
Front
Static (Free) Sag (60-70% of Dynamic Sag) 15-20mm
Dynamic (Rider) Sag (25-30% of Full Travel) 30-35mm
Loaded Sag - (Dynamic Sag - Static sag) 10-20mm

Rear
Static (Free) Sag (15-25% of Dynamic Sag) 5 - 10mm Extremely light bikes use less
Dynamic (Rider) Sag (25-30% of Full Travel) 30 - 35mm Street 20 - 30mm Race
Loaded sag (Rider sag - free sag) 20 - 30mm Street 10 - 25mm Race


You can't set the damping until you've got the right spring rate fitted, which is determined if you can get the sag figures above.
Can't get the correct sga figure = don't waste your time messing with damping until you've got the correct spring

Me, I've got an Elka, with a 325lbs spring and I'm smack bang in the middle of the loaded sag range (39 - 13 = 26mm). I run a little bit more sag due to the shitty roads in the UK.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for the info, Guy. I've been communicating with Dan at Traxxion, and he recommended a spring rate much closer to the stock SV shock rate. Of course I didn't measure sag with the stock shock mounted, so I have to reinstall it (will do that Thursday night) and get the measurements. Once I've done that, I should be able to figure out what spring rate I need and get something ordered.

I messed with the 750 shock's settings some more while riding this afternoon and settled upon what feels like a better setup, albeit not good. Rebound damping and low-speed compression damping are set to .25 turns out from full stiff, and high-speed compression damping is set to 1 turn out from full soft. I'm basically relying on the heavy spring to provide high-speed compression damping and then using the rebound and low-speed compression damping circuits to keep the shock under control. Going any firmer on high-speed compression damping makes the bike feel wallowy--quite probably the rebound circuit is getting overworked. At least I can ride the bike until I get a proper spring installed without worrying that it is going to pitch me off!
 

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I have read several replies on the zx10r forum that the rear springrate is set up for up to a 150lb rider. I've yet to find an actual springrate but I suppose we can estimate based on this? Shopping around for shocks is driving me crazy! I would just get the 06-07 zx10 shock but I like the hi/lo comp adjustability of the 08 - just don't know what the spring is like. I weigh 200lbs with no gear so a slightly stiffer spring should suit me well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I have read several replies on the zx10r forum that the rear springrate is set up for up to a 150lb rider. I've yet to find an actual springrate but I suppose we can estimate based on this? Shopping around for shocks is driving me crazy! I would just get the 06-07 zx10 shock but I like the hi/lo comp adjustability of the 08 - just don't know what the spring is like. I weigh 200lbs with no gear so a slightly stiffer spring should suit me well.
You weigh about the same as I do, so if you beat me to an '08 ZX10 shock, let me know how it works out for you.

The problem with rider weight that a shock is designed for is that the rider weight assumes that shock is on the bike it was designed for. A shock that will work well for a 150 lb rider on a ZX10 may be too stiff for a 200 lb rider on an SV1000. (Or it may be too soft, or even just right. Who knows.) The reason is that the suspension geometry is probably at least slightly different between the bikes, meaning that the spring rate appropriate for a given weight of rider will vary based on what bike the shock is used on.

To be reasonably sure, we need to know actual spring rates. From what I looked up on Racetech's site, a 215lb rider (without gear--figure 225 with gear) going to the racetrack needs about a 9.0kg/mm spring on an SV1000. (Subtract about 0.3kg/mm for street use, per their recommendation.) That's at least somewhat accurate, as the 9.5kg/mm spring on my GSX-R750 shock is definitely too stiff for the SV1000. So if the '08 ZX10 shock is right around or maybe a bit below 9.0kg/mm, there's a good chance it will work well for me (and probably you). But if it's heavier than that, expect to need to change it.

Oh, one more thing. You said you got responses on what the appropriate rider weight is for an '08 ZX10 shock (when mounted on an '08 ZX10.) I haven't gotten a single helpful reply on zx-10r.net regarding shock spring rate. I don't think anyone there knows or, if they do, they haven't spoken up.
 

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Do you have specs on the front fork spring rate of the stock SV's? I see race tech offers 4 or 5 different rates. .8 kg/mm up to 1.0 kg/mm. If you don't have a reference, how can you know what spring to get?

Good info here TFR... This is probably why I don't like messing with the suspension too much. Looks like you can drive yourself up the wall with all the small details. :wacko:
 

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I decided to give up on hunting down an '08 ZX10 shock as the spring info can't be found anywhere, so I just picked up an '06 on ebay for $50, free s/h. First time I've seen one for cheap in a long time. The guy has two left, so if anyone is interested go check it out! Unfortunately I lack a stand and rod to support the bike for installing it so I won't be able to give any feedback right away...it'll probably turn into a winter project anyway.
 

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I decided to give up on hunting down an '08 ZX10 shock as the spring info can't be found anywhere, so I just picked up an '06 on ebay for $50, free s/h. First time I've seen one for cheap in a long time. The guy has two left, so if anyone is interested go check it out! Unfortunately I lack a stand and rod to support the bike for installing it so I won't be able to give any feedback right away...it'll probably turn into a winter project anyway.
yes they were good deals. i bought one as well, and it says there are two left now. i on the other hand will install the day it comes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Do you have specs on the front fork spring rate of the stock SV's? I see race tech offers 4 or 5 different rates. .8 kg/mm up to 1.0 kg/mm. If you don't have a reference, how can you know what spring to get?

Good info here TFR... This is probably why I don't like messing with the suspension too much. Looks like you can drive yourself up the wall with all the small details. :wacko:
I believe the stock SV1000 fork springs are .98kg/mm, but they are progressive-rate springs, which means they are softer in the first part of the travel and then firm up the more they are compressed. That is better for comfort but not so good for handling.

Even if you go with a spring rate that's the same or close to stock, you will get a straight rate spring and it will give more consistent performance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I decided to give up on hunting down an '08 ZX10 shock as the spring info can't be found anywhere, so I just picked up an '06 on ebay for $50, free s/h. First time I've seen one for cheap in a long time. The guy has two left, so if anyone is interested go check it out! Unfortunately I lack a stand and rod to support the bike for installing it so I won't be able to give any feedback right away...it'll probably turn into a winter project anyway.
The '06-'07 should be good for someone who wants a shock spring that's just slightly stiffer than stock. But it should have better damping adjustments. I asked Dan at Traxxion about the '08 ZX10R shock and he didn't know the spring rate either, but he speculated that it would probably be comparable to the '07-'08 ZX6R shock. Speaking of which, I got my '07 ZX6R shock installed and will do some backroads testing of it tonighht.
 

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That is pretty much my objective right now...just a little stiffer, but with better damping behavior than the stock shock. Even my old katana didn't seem to want to bump me off the bike in corners. The SV just feels a bit jittery and unsettled over rougher bits of pavement. Now I just need to get my exhaust dilemma fixed! I don't know what to get!
 

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That is pretty much my objective right now...just a little stiffer, but with better damping behavior than the stock shock. Even my old katana didn't seem to want to bump me off the bike in corners. The SV just feels a bit jittery and unsettled over rougher bits of pavement. Now I just need to get my exhaust dilemma fixed! I don't know what to get!
thats coz the spring is way too hard

I've been through everything from 9kg (500lbs) down to 6kg (325lbs) including 8Kg, 7kg, 6.7kg, 6.25kg
The 325lb allows the suspension actually work and absorb bumps, instead of kicking you out of the seat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
thats coz the spring is way too hard

I've been through everything from 9kg (500lbs) down to 6kg (325lbs) including 8Kg, 7kg, 6.7kg, 6.25kg
The 325lb allows the suspension actually work and absorb bumps, instead of kicking you out of the seat.
The stock spring being way too hard may have been the case for you, but it's not necessarily the case for everyone else. The only way to know for sure if a spring is right or close to being right is to set sag. (I'm really surprised that you're using such a light spring, but if your sag is correct, then it must be the right spring.)
 

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Agreed, as it is related to your body weight, and the weight of the bike

I'm 14st without gear, and sit right up against the tank
 
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