On Gladuis 09 : 6 BTDC :
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SV/DL 1000 : Retarding ignition timing gives me mental madness
Hi everybody
I m french, sorry for my poor english.
i have DL 1000 K7 with 60 ke milles that runs badly : performance like a 650, vibration, feeling running lean, high consumption
I have done all the checks with se service manuel. I have already changed many parts, and recently complète engine for K9 with complete body throttle et ingniton coil (26 k milles) .. and no change🤬🥵😡
There is black soot on spark plugs.
Compression test on new engine (2009) :
*Front : 190 Psi
*Rear : 180 Psi
But when i check it with my OBD SZ Viewer tools, i have -30,5 BTDC at idle :
![]()
When i see on the net, i found diagnotic of good DL 1000 K7 with "Healtech OBD" that say 7-8° BTDC at idle
![]()
-> The service manual told me it should be 5° degré at 1200 rpm ( And 4° for the SV)
Which motorcycle is wrong ?
I m french, sorry for my poor english.
i have DL 1000 K7 with 60 ke milles that runs badly : performance like a 650, vibration, feeling running lean, high consumption
I have done all the checks with se service manuel. I have already changed many parts, and recently complète engine for K9 with complete body throttle et ingniton coil (26 k milles) .. and no change🤬🥵😡
There is black soot on spark plugs.
Compression test on new engine (2009) :
*Front : 190 Psi
*Rear : 180 Psi
But when i check it with my OBD SZ Viewer tools, i have -30,5 BTDC at idle :
When i see on the net, i found diagnotic of good DL 1000 K7 with "Healtech OBD" that say 7-8° BTDC at idle
-> The service manual told me it should be 5° degré at 1200 rpm ( And 4° for the SV)
Which motorcycle is wrong ?
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30.5 timing at idle is way too much at idle. I might even question if that is being measured correctly.Hi everybody
I m french, sorry for my poor english.
i have DL 1000 K7 with 60 ke milles that runs badly : performance like a 650, vibration, feeling running lean, high consumption
I have done all the checks with se service manuel. I have already changed many parts, and recently complète engine for K9 with complete body throttle et ingniton coil (26 k milles) .. and no change
There is black soot on spark plugs.
Compression test on new engine (2009) :
*Front : 190 Psi
*Rear : 180 Psi
But when i check it with my OBD SZ Viewer tools, i have -30,5 BTDC at idle :
![]()
When i see on the net, i found diagnotic of good DL 1000 K7 with "Healtech OBD" that say 7-8° BTDC at idle
![]()
-> The service manual told me it should be 5° degré at 1200 rpm ( And 4° for the SV)
Which motorcycle is wrong ?
If you swapped out engines and still having issues, I would be looking at what did not change.
Fuel pressure?
Fuel flow?
Injector issues?
ECU?
-ms
Yes there is no DTC
Thanks very much for your help, Yes I am French, and I see that there is a very good level here compared to the French forums. On the other hand here in France, the SV/DL 1000 sold very little
The software is free and the box is a standard ELM327 at $10 on Amazon
I will try to search strobe light to check
Hi @toto13
Bit of an update. I managed to get SZ Viewer working after a bit of a false start and have some data. Don't know how meaningful this will be as I'venot been able to spend too much time with it so far but at least you know progress is being made.
I have two ELM modules, tried wiring them up and got no joy, first one just didn't give any lights (has 4 LEDs on box similar to yours) second one made a popping noise and gave off a bit of smoke! Then I realised that in my haste I'd got your wiring diagram wrong and had the image of the bike's connector upside down. Doh!
Obviously one module is now fit for the bin and thinking I may have totalled the other I tried it in my car, I got it connected to my tablet (eventually) and even got some data from the car (Mecedes not Suzuki) into SZ Viewer which was quite good.
I then went back to the bike and very carefully made the connections again and this time it worked.
It did indicate that my ELM module was a "fake" (which I'm not surprised by) and may have limited functionality, I've no way of knowing if this is the case, I also don't know if all these cheap units are fakes and how you know if you're getting an non-fake.
This is the best screen grab I could get, had to take a photo of the table screen with my phone, don't recall how to screen grab directly on the tablet.
![Tablet computer Communication Device Gadget Gesture Font]()
First thing I can see which is "Interesting" is my throttle reading is exactly the same as your first reading at 22.353% (I see the one in your video was slightly lower) don't know how that is possible.
My timing figures are possibly higher than expected at around -21° but not as high as yours, my bike is running a TRE via a gear position indicator but I don't think that affects neutral, I didn't get around to putting the bike in gear.
My STPS is slightly larger than yours but not massively and could just be conditions.
As you can see from the other readings my bike was fairly cold during the test which probably/hopefully accounts for my higher fuel duration and lambda reading - Hope so!
Clutch shows 4 when engaged, changes to 20 when I pull the lever.
Don't know why my screen format differs from yours, may be down to the verison of Android being used, mine looks similar to your video image, don't know why yours had Min/Max data and whether that indicates an expected range of values or the min and max reading monitored.
Unfortunately my bike is still in a few pieces as I've been servicing and making a few mod's, much as I like the smell of burning hydrocarbons it was getting a bit overpowering in my garage so I had to shut it down! I also didn't like the way the bike was running, idle was low and it didn't sound too happy, I've just modified the fuel system to an external filter, hope I didn't get anythign wrong there or forget to connect anything up although I presume I'd be seing a DTC if that was the case.
If the weather plays ball I'll get it out on to my drive tomorrow and test again getting it fully warmed up this time and spend some more time with the software.
Bit of an update. I managed to get SZ Viewer working after a bit of a false start and have some data. Don't know how meaningful this will be as I'venot been able to spend too much time with it so far but at least you know progress is being made.
I have two ELM modules, tried wiring them up and got no joy, first one just didn't give any lights (has 4 LEDs on box similar to yours) second one made a popping noise and gave off a bit of smoke! Then I realised that in my haste I'd got your wiring diagram wrong and had the image of the bike's connector upside down. Doh!
Obviously one module is now fit for the bin and thinking I may have totalled the other I tried it in my car, I got it connected to my tablet (eventually) and even got some data from the car (Mecedes not Suzuki) into SZ Viewer which was quite good.
I then went back to the bike and very carefully made the connections again and this time it worked.
It did indicate that my ELM module was a "fake" (which I'm not surprised by) and may have limited functionality, I've no way of knowing if this is the case, I also don't know if all these cheap units are fakes and how you know if you're getting an non-fake.
This is the best screen grab I could get, had to take a photo of the table screen with my phone, don't recall how to screen grab directly on the tablet.
First thing I can see which is "Interesting" is my throttle reading is exactly the same as your first reading at 22.353% (I see the one in your video was slightly lower) don't know how that is possible.
My timing figures are possibly higher than expected at around -21° but not as high as yours, my bike is running a TRE via a gear position indicator but I don't think that affects neutral, I didn't get around to putting the bike in gear.
My STPS is slightly larger than yours but not massively and could just be conditions.
As you can see from the other readings my bike was fairly cold during the test which probably/hopefully accounts for my higher fuel duration and lambda reading - Hope so!
Clutch shows 4 when engaged, changes to 20 when I pull the lever.
Don't know why my screen format differs from yours, may be down to the verison of Android being used, mine looks similar to your video image, don't know why yours had Min/Max data and whether that indicates an expected range of values or the min and max reading monitored.
Unfortunately my bike is still in a few pieces as I've been servicing and making a few mod's, much as I like the smell of burning hydrocarbons it was getting a bit overpowering in my garage so I had to shut it down! I also didn't like the way the bike was running, idle was low and it didn't sound too happy, I've just modified the fuel system to an external filter, hope I didn't get anythign wrong there or forget to connect anything up although I presume I'd be seing a DTC if that was the case.
If the weather plays ball I'll get it out on to my drive tomorrow and test again getting it fully warmed up this time and spend some more time with the software.
Hi,
Many thanks !
I'm surprised that the SZ VIEWER worked on Mercedes, it's supposed to be a protocol for Suzuki only
I'm very surprised at the level of your idle .. 780 rpm ??
For the TPS, we are both within the standard of the workshop manual, 22% is equivalent 1.10-1.14 V
On the other hand, your consumption seems high to me at idle: 1.5 Ms..
. it is perhaps the TRE which also influences the injection advanceIndeed, there is no fault code. The graphics are different depending on the version of Android
This is all very interesting
What year is your SV 1K?
Must admit I was surprised by that too, I'm sure there was not much data there but it did communicate and what was there seemed viable, although I've not looked in detail this was more of a test that the ELM module was still working after my faux pas with the wiring!
Me too, the bike was running slow but the reading on the bike's tacho was higher than that, I am a bit worried that something may not have gone back together correctly since my changes to the fuel system, need to check all that but also anxious to see what happens when the bike gets fully warm.
Aye, but amazing that we both saw the same reading down to 3 decimal places. Where did you get that manual data by the way?
Possibly, the exhaust did small rich but as I said it was in my garage and running from cold so would smell a bit. What sort of value do you get when yours is still cold?On the other hand, your consumption seems high to me at idle: 1.5 Ms..
I don't think the TRE should affect the ignition on time, my understanding is that this should be ignition only, I also think that a different map is used when the bike is in neutral, from what I read in the instructions for my TRE the signal for neutral simply passes straight through it is the signals for the lower gears which are "tweaked" to fool the ECU into thinking its in a higher gear.
There were some fault codes when I first started the system but they were listed as historical (some at least may have been if I switched on while I had some of the airbox sensors disconnected recently) I cleared them and none came back.
I suspected the graphics was due to the Android versions but I'm a little surprised that I don't see the Min/Max listings particularly as I have plenty of space on the table screen, maybe there is a setting for this or maybe my tablet is just too old.
It is a late 2005 model so is the later style with black frame, Aluminium subframe which I believe has a more capable ECU (32bit instead of 16) it has 2 map sensors on the airbox.
I'm looking to see if I can get the corresponding plug for the diagnostic socket and one for the ODBII so that I can make a proper cable for this, my current setup is a bit "Heath Robinson".
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