[toto13]

Hi everybody

I m french, sorry for my poor english.

i have DL 1000 K7 with 60 ke milles that runs badly : performance like a 650, vibration, feeling running lean, high consumption

I have done all the checks with se service manuel. I have already changed many parts, and recently complète engine for K9 with complete body throttle et ingniton coil (26 k milles) .. and no change🤬🥵😡

There is black soot on spark plugs.

Compression test on new engine (2009) :
*Front : 190 Psi
*Rear : 180 Psi


But when i check it with my OBD SZ Viewer tools, i have -30,5 BTDC at idle :

When i see on the net, i found diagnotic of good DL 1000 K7 with "Healtech OBD" that say 7-8° BTDC at idle

-> The service manual told me it should be 5° degré at 1200 rpm ( And 4° for the SV)

Which motorcycle is wrong ?

 

[toto13]

On Gladuis 09 : 6 BTDC :

 

[toto13]

30.5 timing at idle is way too much at idle. I might even question if that is being measured correctly.

If you swapped out engines and still having issues, I would be looking at what did not change.

Fuel pressure?
Fuel flow?
Injector issues?
ECU?

-ms

Yes, that sounds crazy.
The fuel pump was bypassed in accordance with the thread on the forum. I have a pressure according to the repair manual. The injectors have also been changed.

 

[toto13]

Out of interest where does the value on your print-out come from?
Is it an actual value where the coil is firing or is it from the ECU and hence the value which the management system is intending to fire?

If it is the figure which the system has decided to fire the ignitoin then the issue must lie within the ECU, if it is the engine position where the ignition is occuring then it could be the crank position sensor hardware which triggers it (generator rotor) or someother piece of hardware which is at fault. I'm assuming given the name of the tool that it is querying the ECU via OBD?

Out of interest where does the value on your print-out come from?
Is it an actual value where the coil is firing or is it from the ECU and hence the value which the management system is intending to fire?

If it is the figure which the system has decided to fire the ignitoin then the issue must lie within the ECU, if it is the engine position where the ignition is occuring then it could be the crank position sensor hardware which triggers it (generator rotor) or someother piece of hardware which is at fault. I'm assuming given the name of the tool that it is querying the ECU via OBD?

the value is taken by the diagnostic socket from an ELM box (K-line protocol). So I think this value comes from the ECU

I don't think the ECU is bad, as my idle is perfectly stable? Maybe I'm wrong. In France it is very difficult to find an equivalent motorcycle to test another ECM. Or a used ECM

This is the hardest diagnosis I've ever seen

 

[toto13]

If the engine has ben swapped, K7 to K9, then maybe the ECU is different on each year ?
Or is the donor engine from a different market, where the ECU mapping is different.
Does France still have a horsepower limit in place with the bikes sold there?

Is that enough to throw the cat in amongst the pidgeons ?

In France, the engine was limited to 106 CV maximum and the VSTROM has 98 CV, therefore under legal restriction

 

[toto13]

That's what I thought, in which case this is what the system is calculating (and presumably is what is physically happening) so why would it do this? Seems like it could be a problem with the ECU causing a bad calculation but I think that is unlikely (although I've been surprised before!) I'd expect it to either work or not. So why would it calculate a value which is unsuitable? My thoughts are.
A sensor is giving a bad reading - RPM & MAP look OK but I notice that the throttle reading is just over 22%, presumably you are idling with the throttle closed so that is a bit surprising, may or may not be a problem.
Code inside the ECU responsible for the calculatoin had been changed

Also worth considering that your reader may not be interpreting the value correctly.

Does the reading change if you operate the clutch, put it in gear or open the throttle?
Are there any error codes present?

That's quite right !! but I have been looking for months which or where there is an interference

My TPS is adjusted with the stroke above 2000 RPM

nothing happens when I gear up except that the diag sees it mentioning "CLUCH=1"

Here is a video I made with the same application but emulated for windows

 

[toto13]

Did you put the bike in dealer mode and check the TPS adjustment and any other EMS errors?

Yes there is no DTC

Thanks very much for your help, Yes I am French, and I see that there is a very good level here compared to the French forums. On the other hand here in France, the SV/DL 1000 sold very little

The software is free and the box is a standard ELM327 at $10 on Amazon

I will try to search strobe light to check

 

[toto13]

You say the TPS is adjusted for 2000rpm ?

On the SV, 1400 is the ideal spot for the -C00 line to be, and for it to move to the top at around1750......may be a slightly better transition point on the DL, but
if you have set the centrelilne at 2000, then you will not be introducing a richer fuel mix until nearly 2500....


Just a thought

I misspoke. I set the top bar correctly so that it appears at 2000 rpm (idle at 1350)

 

[toto13]

Hi @toto13
Bit of an update. I managed to get SZ Viewer working after a bit of a false start and have some data. Don't know how meaningful this will be as I'venot been able to spend too much time with it so far but at least you know progress is being made.

I have two ELM modules, tried wiring them up and got no joy, first one just didn't give any lights (has 4 LEDs on box similar to yours) second one made a popping noise and gave off a bit of smoke! Then I realised that in my haste I'd got your wiring diagram wrong and had the image of the bike's connector upside down. Doh!

Obviously one module is now fit for the bin and thinking I may have totalled the other I tried it in my car, I got it connected to my tablet (eventually) and even got some data from the car (Mecedes not Suzuki) into SZ Viewer which was quite good.

I then went back to the bike and very carefully made the connections again and this time it worked.

It did indicate that my ELM module was a "fake" (which I'm not surprised by) and may have limited functionality, I've no way of knowing if this is the case, I also don't know if all these cheap units are fakes and how you know if you're getting an non-fake.

This is the best screen grab I could get, had to take a photo of the table screen with my phone, don't recall how to screen grab directly on the tablet.

First thing I can see which is "Interesting" is my throttle reading is exactly the same as your first reading at 22.353% (I see the one in your video was slightly lower) don't know how that is possible.
My timing figures are possibly higher than expected at around -21° but not as high as yours, my bike is running a TRE via a gear position indicator but I don't think that affects neutral, I didn't get around to putting the bike in gear.

My STPS is slightly larger than yours but not massively and could just be conditions.

As you can see from the other readings my bike was fairly cold during the test which probably/hopefully accounts for my higher fuel duration and lambda reading - Hope so!

Clutch shows 4 when engaged, changes to 20 when I pull the lever.

Don't know why my screen format differs from yours, may be down to the verison of Android being used, mine looks similar to your video image, don't know why yours had Min/Max data and whether that indicates an expected range of values or the min and max reading monitored.

Unfortunately my bike is still in a few pieces as I've been servicing and making a few mod's, much as I like the smell of burning hydrocarbons it was getting a bit overpowering in my garage so I had to shut it down! I also didn't like the way the bike was running, idle was low and it didn't sound too happy, I've just modified the fuel system to an external filter, hope I didn't get anythign wrong there or forget to connect anything up although I presume I'd be seing a DTC if that was the case.

If the weather plays ball I'll get it out on to my drive tomorrow and test again getting it fully warmed up this time and spend some more time with the software.

Hi,
Many thanks !

I'm surprised that the SZ VIEWER worked on Mercedes, it's supposed to be a protocol for Suzuki only

I'm very surprised at the level of your idle .. 780 rpm ??

For the TPS, we are both within the standard of the workshop manual, 22% is equivalent 1.10-1.14 V

On the other hand, your consumption seems high to me at idle: 1.5 Ms.. . it is perhaps the TRE which also influences the injection advance

Indeed, there is no fault code. The graphics are different depending on the version of Android

This is all very interesting

What year is your SV 1K?

 

[toto13]

Aye, but amazing that we both saw the same reading down to 3 decimal places. Where did you get that manual data by the way?


Possibly, the exhaust did small rich but as I said it was in my garage and running from cold so would smell a bit. What sort of value do you get when yours is still cold?

It is a late 2005 model so is the later style with black frame, Aluminium subframe which I believe has a more capable ECU (32bit instead of 16) it has 2 map sensors on the airbox.

I'm looking to see if I can get the corresponding plug for the diagnostic socket and one for the ODBII so that I can make a proper cable for this, my current setup is a bit "Heath Robinson".

I found a screenshot on an SV 650 K7 :

it confirms that the negative value of ignition advance is not a problem



For TPS sensor, in found that in manuel repair of SV 1000 : 1,2 v at throttle closed

When cold, my injection times are never greater than 1200/1300 ms. That's why I'm surprised at your values. You must have a significant consumption!


For our motorcycles with 3 pin cable :

Redirect Notice

 

[toto13]

Indeed, there is a real interpretation problem with your device GDCobra . For my part, the idle is partly consistent with what I have on the speedometer,
just like my engine temperature which is exactly like my thermometer

My water temperature is 106° maximum until the fan starts = the data is perfect

Regarding the intake pressure, you should be at - 70 kpa (Given repair manual) which corresponds to the vacuum created in the body trottle.

The other pressure sensor corresponds to altitude, i.e. 101 kpa is equivalent to sea level.

 

[toto13]

Now we have 2 Intake Air Pressure sensors (front & rear) and no longer have the Atmospheric one.
Looks like I wasn't going crazy remembering my sensors were piped to the TBs but makes me wonder how I can be getting a reading in the SZ Viewer. Looks like it could be my ECU which is not compatible with SZ Viewer.

There are two versions of ECM on the SVs. From 2003 to 2005, and from 2005. Also on my DL K1 it's a Mitsubishi ECM, and on yours it's a DENSO ELECTRONIC

to my knowledge, there are not two AIP (Air Intake Pressure) on the two versions of SV.

SZ Viewer should be compatible with all Suzuki ECMs. I think there is a problem with your ELM, and not your version of android

SZ Viewer (for Android, Windows, Linux, macOS)

SZ Viewer (for Android, Windows, Linux, macOS)

malykh.com

 

[toto13]

I got inspired and bought a cheap ELM327 and adaptor wiring. At the moment I do not have use for it, but at some point it might come in handy. Didnt know about this at all, only the error codes which can be showed in dealer mode.

I would be curious to have a screenshot of your diagnosis

 

[toto13]

tomorrow swap between 16-bit ECM for 32-bit ECM, with full harness change. I did all the checks, and it's compatible except for the meter where I should change the connector.

Bought 120 € (about $140)

 

[toto13]

Unfortunately I'm going to be out of the loop on this for a good few weeks now.

Get well soon




So, I converted the bike with the harness and the 16-bit ECM from 2003, and nothing changed.
still rough

I do not know what to do. I'm doing something wrong, but what?

 

[toto13]

Damn, it must be a low-end ELM327. I had this problem with an ELM bought 5$ on Ebay

You need at least one ELM at $10-15