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KNEE DRAGGER
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Discussion Starter · #601 ·
FYI.... If this doesn't make you want to check your Magneto Rotor (Flywheel) Magnets, nothing will..... I have one loose magnet but likely to have more if i push em hard enough.

MY MAGNETO : View attachment 113194

NEW MAGNETO : View attachment 113202

My Magneto : 2003 SV1000s @ 26,000km. The bike is absolutely immaculate with impeccable service records. Riden mostly at motorway speeds & never sits in traffic (i split cages like my life depends on it). Mainly Ridden in temps 12°C - 24°C.

It's clear to see, the Epoxy has simply deteriorated & LET GO due to AGE & Not heat, oil type or riding style.

Check em now before it takes out your stator or even worse... your engine !


Why would you say heat does not cause deterioration of the bond/epoxy and it is only age? I have a nearly new rotor (less than a 1000 miles) in the garage that is about 5 years old and the epoxy has not changed color a bit from new. Even basic cruising at low engine water temps has shown significantly elevated temperatures in the stator and rotor. I have also run a few test to show that elevated temps on my hot plate (220-230F) for extended periods of time changes the color of the epoxy and can cause the bonds to fail.

The data from my bike is showing (I know it is one data point) that controlling the temperature at the stator has now doubled my rotor life and still going. My first two sets of magnet failures happened both at about 32k mile intervals nearly identically. The bike gets commuted on year round so conditions stay nearly the same. After running the Compufire unit, I am about 60-70k miles on this one and the temp at the stator and rotor are significantly less. It might not be 100% cause and effect, but a heavy correlation exists.

-ms
 

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Why would you say heat does not cause deterioration of the bond/epoxy and it is only age? It might not be 100% cause and effect, but a heavy correlation exists
Yes i agree, Heat would contribute to the break down of the Epoxy.

These bikes are 10 to 15 years old now. There is no denying the 1000's of low mileage SV (& DL1000) magneto failures.
 

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So is the general consensus to check the flywheel and to either reinforce the current with JBweld or to preemptively upgrade it to a 2005+ flywheel?

Is there any need to replace the stator if you haven't had an issue with it (no discoloration)?

I am on a 2003 SV1000 with 25k miles. I run full synthetic oil and recently replaced my reg/rec with an series unit to avoid future charging issues. Looking to avoid as many common issues while out riding where I can.
 

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Welcome to the Forum!:)

It sure wouldn't hurt to check the rotor just to be sure the magnets are in place, then add some extra insurance with JB Weld between them. That way you can ride without worry and have confidence that things aren't going to come apart on you. The linear RR is a good idea so long as it doesn't short out the stator...which doesn't need replacing so long as it's electrically insulated from phase to phase and to ground. If it's OK...it's good to go.
 

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Replacement rotors are all the same construction. So a 2005 would not be apt to last longer than the others. If I bought a new rotor today I would do the "JB Weld" fix before installing it. So far that seems to be a permanent fix for the magnet problem. I would do this to a newly purchased bike just as simply preventive maintenance also.
 

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Why would you say heat does not cause deterioration of the bond/epoxy and it is only age? I have a nearly new rotor (less than a 1000 miles) in the garage that is about 5 years old and the epoxy has not changed color a bit from new. Even basic cruising at low engine water temps has shown significantly elevated temperatures in the stator and rotor. I have also run a few test to show that elevated temps on my hot plate (220-230F) for extended periods of time changes the color of the epoxy and can cause the bonds to fail.

The data from my bike is showing (I know it is one data point) that controlling the temperature at the stator has now doubled my rotor life and still going. My first two sets of magnet failures happened both at about 32k mile intervals nearly identically. The bike gets commuted on year round so conditions stay nearly the same. After running the Compufire unit, I am about 60-70k miles on this one and the temp at the stator and rotor are significantly less. It might not be 100% cause and effect, but a heavy correlation exists.

-ms
So the consensus is that adding JB weld is neccesary? Did Schmidt314 do that to double the life of his newest rotor or is he saying that the series RR likely had something to do with it? I was initially planning to get a new rotor and reinforce with JBweld but it seems like there is some potential for the JB to do damage if it breaks up for any reason. If a new rotor and a series are an improvement over the 15yr old rotor i am running then I might not go through the trouble of JB.
 

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I cannot speak for Schmidt314.

But I can tell you that the JB Weld holds up over time. It has been several years since the early experiments with it. The JB Weld isn't going to break up and cause problems. We use JB Weld because it IS rated for oil immersion and constant temps of 400 degrees F. Regular epoxy cannot do that. Any failures will probably be linked to owners using an epoxy that isn't rated for the job.

I can tell you for a fact that allowing the magnets to come loose can be a LOT of trouble. They can jam into the stator and bits and pieces are everywhere in the engine!
 

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So the consensus is that adding JB weld is neccesary? Did Schmidt314 do that to double the life of his newest rotor or is he saying that the series RR likely had something to do with it? I was initially planning to get a new rotor and reinforce with JBweld but it seems like there is some potential for the JB to do damage if it breaks up for any reason. If a new rotor and a series are an improvement over the 15yr old rotor i am running then I might not go through the trouble of JB.
Anything that breaks has the potential to do damage whether it's JB weld or magnets. That being said there's a much greater chance for the magnets to do damage if JB weld is not used than for the JB weld to do damage if it is used.

It's a lot less trouble to smear some JB weld between the magnets than to replace the rotor and it will most likely (nothing is 100% certain) eliminate the problem.
 

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It's been 12 months and 7,000 km's since i did the JB weld fix after finding a loose magnet.
I glued the loose magnet using JB and put small fillets of glue in between the other magnets to prevent movement.

I am happy to report that everything is perfectly fine and i am now super keen to purchase a WERKS modified basket
to fix the clutch chudder.

Many more happy days on the SV to come. :headbang:
 

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It's been 12 months and 7,000 km's since i did the JB weld fix after finding a loose magnet.
I glued the loose magnet using JB and put small fillets of glue in between the other magnets to prevent movement.

I am happy to report that everything is perfectly fine and i am now super keen to purchase a WERKS modified basket
to fix the clutch chudder.

Many more happy days on the SV to come. :headbang:
Is the chudder harmful for the engine?

Skickat från min ONEPLUS A3003 via Tapatalk
 

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I think I've seen a post somewhere from one of the guys that makes modified baskets that they haven't seen a failure due to the clutch basket issue?

I talked to a bunch of Suzuki dealers today, none of them seem to have heard of the magnet issue but they know about the clutch basket issue.
I thought that was a little interesting given that the magnet issue seems to occur on bikes of every year and there's a decent amount of them where I live.
 

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Checked my flywheel today.

2007 SV1000S, 17k kms

No magnets have moved but epoxy seems to have gone bright orange and moved around the flywheel (very similar to Mr Chips's flywheel).

I have put a bit of JB weld in between the magnets (1/4 - 1/2 full)

Never used JB weld on anything before, my plastic applier stick didn't work all that well - JB weld stuck to it instead of the flywheel making it difficult to get a good coat.

FYI for anyone doing the JB weld thing on the smooth flywheels - you'll need low grit sandpaper (I used 80 grit and I still had difficulty scratching up the surface).
 

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KNEE DRAGGER
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Discussion Starter · #613 ·
As an update on my data collection, here are the latest bits of info on my high mileage SV.

Two rotor magnet failures, one with 39k miles on the rotor and the second nearly identical mileage fail at 38k miles.

Install Compufire RR unit to bring temperatures way down at 75k miles on bike. I know 38k and 39k do not add up to 75k, one rotor was installed new into another engine for a few miles prior to being installed in this bike.

Once again here is the previous data
OEM Regulator Rectifier unit
Ambient temp 50F
Regulator Rectifier 128F
Right case cover 168F
Left case cover 212
Head of rotor bolt 211F
Rotor 188F

OEM Regulator Rectifier unit
Ambient temp 43F
Regulator Rectifier 133F
Right case cover 172F
Left case cover 218
Head of rotor bolt 225F
Rotor 194F

CompuFire Regulator Rectifier
Ambient temp 48F Slight drizzle
Regulator Rectifier 75F
Right case cover 141F
Left case cover 158F
Head of rotor bolt 162F
Rotor 149F

With CompuFire Regulator Rectifier
Ambient temp 41F
Regulator Rectifier 79F
Right case cover 157F
Left case cover 162F
Head of rotor bolt 174F
Rotor 160F

Significant heat reduction as shown here. My bike has nearly 140k now, so with a new OEM mag rotor and the Compufire, this rotor has now gone 65k miles. Significantly more miles than the previous two new units.

The recent inspection of the rotor does show the epoxy has turned more orange now but still has not gotten brittle.

Nearly identical results on a really high mile DL1000 now also that I work on.

-MS
 

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This is the second time I've had to replace the flywheel due to loose and disintegrated magnets. First time was 8 years ago (~47000km), this time there are 96000km on my '05 1000S. Luckily I caught it this time before the stator was damaged. The thing that alerted me was an unusual vibration in the bars and in the left mirror, as well as a slightly more sluggish start up than usual. I suspect the generator was still charging the battery a little bit, but just not fully. I put up with the vibration for about 2 days before pulling off the left engine cover to find this:

117579


It took 2 weeks of constant work to get the flywheel off the crank ... every day hitting it with heat, impact driver, breaker bar, repeat. Eventually it popped off without a drama, so I guess the key here is persistence. Unfortunately I broke another magnet while hammering on the flywheel. Damn.

A new flywheel was $701 (Australia). Ouch. After adding JB weld between the magnets and letting it harden I cleaned up the job using a dremel and reinstalled the flywheel.
117580


Without the special tool it is difficult to hold the crank steady while removing or installing the centre bolt. I made up a holder from a used steel fence post, based on an idea I saw someone else use (can't remember where). This pic gives the idea.
117581


Unfortunately at about 90 ft-lbs the bolt gave way when I was installing the flywheel. A quick phone around and I soon discovered there were no spares in the country ... so another couple of weeks delay wating for a replacement from overseas. Here's a comparison between the old bolt and the new, and more graphic pic of the distorted old bolt
117582


117585



I guess these bolts are designed to yield before you can do any damage to the threads in the crank. I don't know why mine yielded - I was torquing it up in 10-ft-lb stages and it gave way somewhere between 90 and 100 ft-lbs.

Once the new bolt was torqued up to spec (with loctite as well), reassembly was quick and I was back on the road. I added a voltmeter next to the instrument cluster to keep an eye on the state of charge, and within a couple of days I noticed occasionally the voltage jumped way high (in excess of the 16.5 v max that the meter is able to indicate) while riding after say 20 minutes. Luckily I had a spare reg/rec in the shed, and changing it out fixed that problem. I don't like the idea of shunt regulators, and will upgrade to a series regulator when I get the chance. The voltmeter is reasonably accurate as the photo shows .... within a tenth of a volt is plenty good enough.

A voltmeter is, I believe, an absolute must on these bikes.
Not only for keeping an eye on the state of magneto/generator, but also the state of the reg/rec.
Both of these critical components are known to fail way too often, but if caught in time, serious damage and expense can be avoided.

117586


Out of interest, I did a couple of science experiments on the magnets for anyone interested. Each magnet has a North and a South pole on each side, as the following pics show. The second of these photos is the edge pattern (sheet of paper lies over the flywheel).
117583


117584


This gives 6 north poles and 6 south poles around the circumference. The stator has 18 poles, and each magnet spans across 2 or 3 poles at any given instant, as the photo below shows. Every third pole on the stator belongs to the same phase, so you can see that at any instant, the windings associated with any given phase are all positioned in the same place relative to the nearest magnet pole. The induced voltages across those windings add to give the output voltage for the phase. (I am an electrical engineer, hence the unusual interest ... my apologies).

117587


It is a shame that the SV has this design flaw with the magnets in the flywheel, and I hope the JB weld holds up. One day I hope to pull the engine cover off again and check on everything.

Next job is to fit a Werks-modified clutch basket that arrived this week, and get rid of that god awful chudder. :)

cheers
 

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Most excellent post Bozo! Sorry it was for the unfortunate magnet issue but it's good to see you are still kicking around on the SV. :) Your posts from the past were much appreciated and instructive and I've often wondered what became of you. The JB Weld seems to be holding up fine...haven't heard of a properly 'welded' rotor failing...yet. Never say never and all of that. I agree that the SV should include a volt meter for constant monitoring of this potential problem and have included a couple different variations on mine since early on in ownership. Thanks again and take care! :)
 

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Hey RecoilRob, thx for the kind words. While I was fitting a Werks clutch basket last week, I took the opportunity to examine the oil strainer and got quite a shock. The strainer I presume strains out any rubbish in the oil before the pump sends the oil through the oil filter. The strainer itself was relatively clean, with just a few small particles jammed in the mesh that were easily cleaned out with some compressed air and a toothbrush. Underneath it though was a different story ... I present exhibit A:
117633


This looks like someone's been eating pistachios in there. I suspect it is a collection of magnet epoxy - I collected all the particles & I give you Exhibit B:

117634


These particles are mostly just a few millimeters across - the plastic container they're sitting in is actually the packaging for the oil filter, so you can see they are not insubstantial in size. The yellow ones look like the epoxy from the magnets. I have no idea what the green ones are, they could be epoxy, but I've never seen the epoxy turn green before. Bear in mind too that this little collection is the sum of two shattered magnetos ... one from almost 10 years ago and another from a couple of months ago. One or two other particles are ferrous & probably bits of shattered magnet.

After a good cleanup, and swapping out the clutch basket, everything is right with the world again. Hopefully 10 more years at least of happy SV ownership to come!

cheers, Mark
 

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Ahh.....i havent had the clutch cover off since my magnets slipped, but definetly will get the screen out for a look.......
 

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Two weeks ago, while at stop lights I noticed my mirrors had way more buzz to them than normal. I thought maybe my front fairing bracket was loose, but it was fine. I keep riding it and now I notice my hands are starting to get buzzed way more than they used to. I do a quick one over with torque wrench and engine mounts and other misc items, and they were all good. Next in line I figured I better check some internal engine things first like primary drive gear, clutch hub, mag rotor and such. I figure I can check the left side of the engine easier because I do not have to drain oil or water. I pop the cover off and guess what? All but one magnet had broken loose. This sucks, and luckily I have so much SV crap laying around on my shelves, I grabbed a box that had an 05 and up unit (much lighter than the 03-04 ones). I bolted it in and I am ready to go again. I have never seen such a frequent occurrence of this problem on a bike before. This happened on my 04 commuter machine with about 38K miles on it.

I guess I should consider myself lucky, the bike was still running, no magnets had broken or shattered and my oil is clean. I could see this causing major engine problems if I would have run it much longer.

-MS
Do you still have the 03 magnets and will you sell them. I need to replace most of mine and csn not find new ones
 

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KNEE DRAGGER
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