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What is up with everyones flywheel magnets?

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174K views 621 replies 106 participants last post by  Missing Link  
#1 ·
Two weeks ago, while at stop lights I noticed my mirrors had way more buzz to them than normal. I thought maybe my front fairing bracket was loose, but it was fine. I keep riding it and now I notice my hands are starting to get buzzed way more than they used to. I do a quick one over with torque wrench and engine mounts and other misc items, and they were all good. Next in line I figured I better check some internal engine things first like primary drive gear, clutch hub, mag rotor and such. I figure I can check the left side of the engine easier because I do not have to drain oil or water. I pop the cover off and guess what? All but one magnet had broken loose. This sucks, and luckily I have so much SV crap laying around on my shelves, I grabbed a box that had an 05 and up unit (much lighter than the 03-04 ones). I bolted it in and I am ready to go again. I have never seen such a frequent occurrence of this problem on a bike before. This happened on my 04 commuter machine with about 38K miles on it.

I guess I should consider myself lucky, the bike was still running, no magnets had broken or shattered and my oil is clean. I could see this causing major engine problems if I would have run it much longer.

-MS
 

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#37 ·
all 6 of my magnets came loose, but i epoxied them back down myself and almost no vibration. all 6 of my magnets were doing a conga line at the bottom of my flywheel rotor with a 3 or 4 inch gap on top. now they all properly placed and working great 300 miles later still no issues 11,000 rpms and 150 mph for test. i would happily fix your other rotor and magnets if you deliver them to me or ship it.

im in central california
 
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#3 ·
Can you attribute it to anything ? Bike got knocked over, hit a big pot hole, dumped the clutch .... anything?

Sounds like you noticed it before you noticed your charging system stopped working but that makes me nervous, since you're at least the 4th or 5th person this has happened to.

The concept and ideals of this bike are great but there's a lot that can be said about the finish :ranting:

- Green Connector (Done)
- TPS adjustment (Done)
- Clutch slave cylinder seal (Need to do)
- Water pump seal (Need to do)
- Check stator magnets (probably a matter of time)

And my bike only has 7K miles on it, granted it's an 03 but I've spent a large fraction of my time working on this bike relative to the time I've ridden it. My 600 Bandit which I had for 5 years didn't require anything but routine bike maintenance...
 
#4 ·
Nothing abnormal that I know of. I got this one with 2400 miles on it. I have pretty much ridden it and done only regular service stuff. I have not had any green connector issues, no knocks, no leaks. This is the first item to bite me I guess. I have owned a fair number of bikes, and rarely have had any strange problems or typically reported issues with them.

I think I can attribute this to riding all the time. I ride my stuff year round and it stays really healthy. I sold my 99 ZRX1100 in late 07 and it still had the OEM battery in it.

-MS
 
#5 ·
SHYTE. I ride mine all the time too. I bet at the end of the year I'll have close to 15K this year alone.

I noticed the other day my mirrors were shaking more than usual, and my hands are always going numb. But I have carpal tunnel in both wrists so I figured that was having a lot to do with the tingling. Now, with your post and the couple others I have seen these magnets are worth looking at.

What do I need to get to fix them, or have on standby should the issue come up? Just the stator cover and gasket?
 
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#7 ·
I did not even need the gasket, it was intact and stayed on the engine. You will need a puller and holder, or an air impact to zap it off. If you need a mag rotor I would go with a 05 and up unit, lighter to make the bike spin up faster.

-MS
 
#6 ·
Well, what the F. Did it happen on your K6 model? Trying to figure out if it's just the "old" models only.

I have noticed mine vibrates a lot more that it used to over 5k rpm. I have inspected mine before and it was fine. Looks like it's time to check the magnets again...
 
#8 ·
This happened on my 04 street bike. My race bike engines are all still good. My bike really did not vibrate too bad, it was a bit more noticeable, but at idle it just seemed wrong. After riding it around the past couple of days now I do notice the vibration while riding is a bit better and my heated hand grips get way hotter. It is worth a check I would say, the consequences are not good...

-MS
 
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#10 ·
This is exactly what happened to me a couple of months back, but being mechanically challenged, I had to pay my local Suzuki dealer to carry out the repair, and order a whole new flywheel assembly from Japan. Cost the best part of £500.

As much as I love the the torque of the v-twin engine, Suzuki's build quality has really lived up to its shoddy reputation and I'm looking to sell the SV as a result.

Its a shame because the SV does have a lot going for it, but it feels cheap, it looks cheap and it rattles and knocks and bits fall off it. Wish I'd never bought it in fact.

Hope I've not offended anyone here because the SV is obviously a popular and much loved machine, but its given me too many headaches in the last 2 years, so she just has to go.
 
#17 ·
KBarlow said:
As much as I love the the torque of the v-twin engine, Suzuki's build quality has really lived up to its shoddy reputation and I'm looking to sell the SV as a result.
Click to expand...
I've never understood why people complain so much about the build quality on the SV. I think that in general Kawasakis are much worse as the finish wears off very quickly and you have to keep on top of them to avoid rust, something I had never worried about on my Suzukis.

I guess that the fact that I've owned some truly crappy Chinese bikes has screwed me up, so everything that is "acceptable" seems like good quality to me?
 
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#11 ·
That will be worth checking this winter when I get some lift time. How much $, and where to get the later, lighter, fly wheel? And what does Suzuki use To secure the magnets? A epoxy? We have a GE plant here,and know enough folks that might be able to do a repair.
 
#14 ·
Am interested in this as well.
Mines got 21k on it now, last 12k been done in last 14months lol
Done most of the engine mods, tps etc
But not done either the valve check or the magnets:whistle:
Should i be worried & just get it sorted out?
Its a k6 model btw
 
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W
#16 ·
I had a charging problem on my 2003 model. Battery running flat gradually, yet when I tested the three generator phases individually they all tested fine. I thought it had to be a regultor prob and bought three of them, one after the other?!!! In the end it turned out to be that all the magnets had come unstuck. Testing each phase individually showed up to be ok, cos the back emf wasn't enough to make the magnets slip; only when they were all under load did they stop spinning. I had to buy a new flywheel to cure problem. The later, lighter, version fitted, so at least I ended up with a livlier motor, but it took me weeks to find the problem.

Hope this helps someone else with the same prob; it' a real head f+ck, cos all the usual tests show normal!
 
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#19 ·
WW - My experience similar to yours; all phases check OK but no charging. Replaced regulator and still no charge. Even hooked up a 110V trouble light to each phase directly from the stator output and got a nice bright filament on each one. Pulled cover and found all the magnets loose and one pole coil shorted to ground. Must have caught a magnet chip or??. If any pole shorts to ground, the Silicon Controlled Rectifier (SCR) in the regulator will not commutate (turn off) so the regulator shuts everything off and keeps it off. It has to see a sine wave, with a voltage reversal on each of the three phases to turn off. With a short in the middle of the delta-connected three phase winding, the voltage will be (approximately) an average of the three phases which may not provide the negative voltage transient needed to turn the regulator off. In your case, the phasing probably got altered from the magnets shifting which would lead to the same effect.
I tried epoxying the magnets back on with JB Weld but they came loose again in about 3k mi. I re-bonded with Hysol E120 (made for missile nose cones they said!) and also grit blasted the flywheel inner surface before bonding. Hope it holds up better this time.
Yamaha regulators use Field Effect Transistors (FET's) instead of SCR's so they will continue to work even if one phase is shorted to ground or loose magnets but then you might not get the warning (no charging) until too late.
Anyway - it took over 100 thousand miles to fail so I can't complain too much.
I have an '06 too and it is fine at 7k mi.
 
#20 ·
you should rev them harder not pootle around the centrifugal forces would keep the magnets in place!!
thrash them to within an inch of the crank and thrash them some more
 
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#22 ·
I would have to agree...especially after mine has taken a crap for the second time...in 35,000 miles! It was under warrenty that first time. I was just told the stator went, but I don't know if the flywheel magnets came loose or not. Time to pull the cover myself this time.

Anyone up for a magneto party!?! ;} Thanks for the info guys!
 
#24 ·
No wonder I haven't seen you out riding recently. Ouch!
 
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#26 ·
That rotor looks like it was cooked. I just had mine off and it was clean and shiny with no blackening at all. Wondering if the battery has been going off for some time and it was drawing enough extra current from the rotor to over-heat it? SOMETHING is killing them....they don't just die on their own or they'd all be doing it.

A volt-meter seems a good investment to watch over the electrical system. Troubleshoot the thing at first sign of trouble and hopefully the magnets will stay in place.(fingers crossed)
 
#27 ·
Well, the other day I replaced the stator cover on my 600RR, and I did notice the rotor is quite diferent. On the 600RR there is something that looks like a metal liner over the magnets, so the magnets are sandwiched in between two metal plates, here is a picture of it:

<a href="http://s285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/acorredorv/?action=view&current=magnetic.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/acorredorv/magnetic.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Seems that Suzuki really went cheap with the SV's stator rotor! Although I've seen several other stators made the same way, but I had never heard of magnets coming lose?
 
#28 ·
Damn...

Not even the GSX-Rs that are just build strong enough for a squid to crash them, nor the Hayabusa share such a crappy flywheel!

<a href="http://s285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/acorredorv/?action=view&current=04cb28d1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/acorredorv/04cb28d1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/acorredorv/?action=view&current=c73ddfb6.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll55/acorredorv/c73ddfb6.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

I wonder if it would be possible to install a GSXR flywheel on the SV?
 
#29 ·
:HMM:


Interesting observation ST!

I'd give it a shot if my magnets go bad.

Here is OEM K5 GSXR 600 info:

1 ROTOR ASSY
31402-29G00 1 $390.06 Yikes! $325 for the SV one.

The pickups/sensors are different though. Probably couldn't do it.
 
#31 ·
Maybe, but bonding them together and clearance I'm sure would be a problem. It would rub on the stator. The closer the magnets are to the poles the better. Probably there is around .050" of clearance or less.
 
#32 ·
They could be press fit , with a smear of epoxy for good measure.

The .050" of clearance would be the biggest problem , but it could be done.

A ring that is the depth of the inside of the rotor , made to be the same diameter as the inside of the magnets' diameter , of approximately .050" thickness. I worked in a machine shop for a few years. That would be a piece of cake to turn on a lathe. The aluminum shouldn't affect the magnetic field much , and would be light enough to be inconsequential with regard to rotating mass.

Perhaps a complete stator/rotor assy. from another Zuki would be easier for the average SV rider. Myself included , as I don't have access to a lathe.


Interesting stuff.


..................................Blake
 
#34 ·
OK, obviously besides the shaft size and taper, depth , and outside diameter (overall physical dimensions) what else would we need for this to work ?

Same amount of sensor "teeth" on the rotor/flywheel, and in the same location as the stock unit with respect to the flywheel key.

Anything else ? I don't think it would matter if the unit was a 2 or 4 cylinder , as long as above criteria were met. I suppose the sensor "teeth" might be different for a 4 cylinder , though.

What do they do on the race bikes ? I bet they just use the TL's unit and use the old CPU. That would be pretty easy. Alot of harness hacking though.


...........................Blake
 
#35 ·
Nihilist said:
........... I bet they just use the TL's ........
...........................Blake
Click to expand...
Did anyone investigate this further?

Has anyone tried an out of warranty claim with Suzuki? as this should not be happening, and from SVRiders post, it seems the '05 on bikes with the lighter magneto are also affected.

I cross referenced part numbers and it appears that the SV Magneto are solely used on the SV's which got me wondering if the TLR unit can be used? Does anyone know? Might be interesting to see what TLRman knows?

The SV unit as previously posted doesn't have a retaining shield
<a href="http://s273.photobucket.com/albums/jj227/fastbikefinder/SV1000s/?action=view&current=2005onSV1000sMagneto.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj227/fastbikefinder/SV1000s/2005onSV1000sMagneto.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

But the TLR does....

<a href="http://s273.photobucket.com/albums/jj227/fastbikefinder/SV1000s/?action=view&current=TLRmagneto.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj227/fastbikefinder/SV1000s/TLRmagneto.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

My bike doesn't have a problem but I might investigate mine in the winter as I don't want any unexpected bills or damage to the motor.

I did over 35k on my first SV1000sk3 and at that point up until 2007 when I parted with it had never heard of this issue so it was a shock to read these problems that have come in the last 2-3 years.
 
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#40 ·
flywheel magnet repair

ok guys this goes out to everyone on this forum that has concerns or has experianced this issue already. i had all 6 of my magnets come loose. im not sure what made them loose as the bike has been down a few times from previous owner and 1 time by me. reguardless all 6 magnets were not epoxied in place. suzuki does not do anything but try to deter you from fixing it and try to get you to buy a new flywheel assembly for $340 this new flywheel assembly with come with the same epoxy which obviously does not work well.

i can fix your flywheel rotor if you have all magnets and they are undamaged.
i have stress tested my magnets at top throttle for MPH and RPM vibration is far less than it was before the fix and i seem to be getting slightly better fuel mileage since its not working as hard to turn the weight of all 6 magnets in 1 spot.

there are 2 methods of prepping the rotor method 1 is more professional if you are the guy that has your own workshop, method 1 require heating the rotor up til its glowing to bake out all the oil. method 2 is to give your rotor and nice ether bath and wipe it down with paper towels till you get a perfectly clean paper towel after wiping. both methods require you to sand the rotor where the magnets will be placed. i just sanded the entire thing all the way around the inside, then you must sand the back side of the magnets, preferably with no old epoxy on them if possible. next step is to get yourself a good high quality epoxy that can withstand high temp and has a high tensile strength and peel strength. there are a few different brands out there. i chose JB Weld it is safe with temps up to 600 degrees and its peel strength and tensile strength are just shy of 4000 psi. i let my rotor sit and allowed the jb weld to cure for 3 days before putting it back together but it says on the package 24 hours to cure. i just had more work to do so i left it to cure for a few more days. this is EXTREMELY important. when applying the epoxy to the magnets it is best to use the magnet much like a steam roller and roller it through the epoxy so you get a good even coating that is not too think. if you try to paint it on you will most likely put way too much on and you may not have the clearance for the stator. with fingers press the magnets from 1 side to the other like a steam roller and then with a small piece of cardboard make sure to smear the epoxy to cover any areas that did not get coated well. also EXTREMELY important when placing the magnets be sure they are seated all the way back in the rotor and are even flush with the back wall of the rotor. there is a small groove there that will also help to bond to the epoxy. if you try to do this repair yourself and you ignore any of the steps you WILL be buying a new engine as magnets do not just fall out with oil. magnets chunks will stick to your engine internals and you will either buy a new one of take your current one completely apart.

stuff needed for this job if you are taking your flywheel rotor out you will need a rotor pulling tool. (i left mine on the bike) you will need a stator cover gasket (two of the is recommended so you can take it off to check the magnets after a couple hundred miles to make sure everything is holding good. ) you will need a heating tool (blow torch) and a bench clamps to hold the glowing red hold rotor if you go with method 1. method 2 requires 3 to 4 cans of ether (brake cleaner) and you give it a nice ether bath and a rub down until the paper towel has no residue on it. you will need epoxy (i used JB weld) and some sand paper to ruff up the rotor and magnets. a heat gun can be used for a faster curing process if you are seriously that impatient but i would strongly recommend you let it cure for atleast 24 hours.

make sure you line up all your gear teeth parts when you put it back together.
 
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#125 ·
HELP ME!!!

sephrin said:
ok guys this goes out to everyone on this forum that has concerns or has experianced this issue already. i had all 6 of my magnets come loose. im not sure what made them loose as the bike has been down a few times from previous owner and 1 time by me. reguardless all 6 magnets were not epoxied in place. suzuki does not do anything but try to deter you from fixing it and try to get you to buy a new flywheel assembly for $340 this new flywheel assembly with come with the same epoxy which obviously does not work well.

i can fix your flywheel rotor if you have all magnets and they are undamaged.
i have stress tested my magnets at top throttle for MPH and RPM vibration is far less than it was before the fix and i seem to be getting slightly better fuel mileage since its not working as hard to turn the weight of all 6 magnets in 1 spot.

there are 2 methods of prepping the rotor method 1 is more professional if you are the guy that has your own workshop, method 1 require heating the rotor up til its glowing to bake out all the oil. method 2 is to give your rotor and nice ether bath and wipe it down with paper towels till you get a perfectly clean paper towel after wiping. both methods require you to sand the rotor where the magnets will be placed. i just sanded the entire thing all the way around the inside, then you must sand the back side of the magnets, preferably with no old epoxy on them if possible. next step is to get yourself a good high quality epoxy that can withstand high temp and has a high tensile strength and peel strength. there are a few different brands out there. i chose JB Weld it is safe with temps up to 600 degrees and its peel strength and tensile strength are just shy of 4000 psi. i let my rotor sit and allowed the jb weld to cure for 3 days before putting it back together but it says on the package 24 hours to cure. i just had more work to do so i left it to cure for a few more days. this is EXTREMELY important. when applying the epoxy to the magnets it is best to use the magnet much like a steam roller and roller it through the epoxy so you get a good even coating that is not too think. if you try to paint it on you will most likely put way too much on and you may not have the clearance for the stator. with fingers press the magnets from 1 side to the other like a steam roller and then with a small piece of cardboard make sure to smear the epoxy to cover any areas that did not get coated well. also EXTREMELY important when placing the magnets be sure they are seated all the way back in the rotor and are even flush with the back wall of the rotor. there is a small groove there that will also help to bond to the epoxy. if you try to do this repair yourself and you ignore any of the steps you WILL be buying a new engine as magnets do not just fall out with oil. magnets chunks will stick to your engine internals and you will either buy a new one of take your current one completely apart.

stuff needed for this job if you are taking your flywheel rotor out you will need a rotor pulling tool. (i left mine on the bike) you will need a stator cover gasket (two of the is recommended so you can take it off to check the magnets after a couple hundred miles to make sure everything is holding good. ) you will need a heating tool (blow torch) and a bench clamps to hold the glowing red hold rotor if you go with method 1. method 2 requires 3 to 4 cans of ether (brake cleaner) and you give it a nice ether bath and a rub down until the paper towel has no residue on it. you will need epoxy (i used JB weld) and some sand paper to ruff up the rotor and magnets. a heat gun can be used for a faster curing process if you are seriously that impatient but i would strongly recommend you let it cure for atleast 24 hours.

make sure you line up all your gear teeth parts when you put it back together.
Click to expand...

New to this forum not sure how to use it. I just bought an sv and the magnets flew apart. Im in turlock !!!
 
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#42 ·
yeah i wouldnt be able to do it with broken magnets anyways. i got lucky and none of mine came out of rotor, they were just not secured anymore and all came out with mild hand pressure. if you have the extra money for sure its probably better to buy a part with a warranty, but if you are like me and dont have $340 just laying around for a new setup then my method can get the job done for about $50 including the gasket.

i would definately be interested to see if the TL rotor assembly works for the SV1000 and how much if any modifying was needed
 
#43 ·
Look at the two pics, and look specifically at the outside of the rotor. The SV1K unit has a bunch of square "teeth", while the TLR unit has only one in the picture.

AFAIK, these "teeth" are used as pick up points by the crank position sensor to tell the ECM what position the crank is in.

TLR is a 16 bit ECM, SV1K is a 32 bit ECM.


I think you would be better off to re-epoxy your magnets onto your rotor . If your magnets are shattered, there are many places that sell magnets online. I'm sure you can find something that will work.


.........................Blake
 
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#44 ·
those teeth are the flywheel gear teeth. you can remove the rotor hub from teh flywheel but i dont know if you can bolt a tlr rotor to a sv flywheel. but yeah i would think that epoxying your magnets would be less of a job than customizing the flywheel assembly and ecm
 
#45 ·
sephrin said:
those teeth are the flywheel gear teeth. you can remove the rotor hub from teh flywheel but i dont know if you can bolt a tlr rotor to a sv flywheel.
Click to expand...
Not talking about the actual gear - there are metal tabs on the rotor in a special arrangement that tell the ECU the position of the crankshaft (aka 'trigger wheel')

These tabs are arranged differently on the SV - there are more of them and much closer to each other.
.


It seems the TLR has 4 or 5, with one being longer, while the SV has 22 small tabs with two missing.


D.
 
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