whats the issue?

 

The clutch keeps slipping. It's very bad when going up hill. I give the bike more throttle and it's as if nothing is happening...in fact, the bike gets slower. It's driving me nuts since I've taken everything apart and put it back together 4 times already. I believe everything is correct even up to the final friction disc being offset from the rest. I'm going to try again in the morning since I'm just getting pissed off now.

 

It sounds like your stack height might be too small and the pressure plate is bottoming out on the center hub, or maybe the clutch can’t get full force onto the pack because of the slave or rod not being allowed to move full stroke properly?

Are you shimming the springs back from stock at all?

Vesrah clutch plates are typically good, but I always try to use OEMs. I have not had a set of the Vesrah plates in hand for a 14 and up DL so I can not comment.

I refuse to use or even pour Rotella into a bike if a customer supplies it.

-ms

 

Any time you make a conversion like this, you have to use the right parts. These 2014+ inner hub assemblies stack up differently than the SV or DL earlier versions. I don't have much experience with these new style. But I would be certain I was using the right washers. I can tell you the 2014+ style pushes the clutch pack out toward the outer part of the clutch basket more than the early style. Which tells me spacing is critical to get right. The thickness of the big washers behind the clutch basket, in front of the clutch basket where the hub sits are critical. Make sure you have the all the parts that are intended for the 2014+ style inner hub. I don't even know if the steels are the same thickness as before? The most common issue on first generation bikes is the pressure plate not being engaged into the slots on the inner hub. But they usually won't hardly even move when like that. Yours moves down the road...but slips badly. Like Michael said, that should mean the pressure plate isn't applying all the pressure it is supposed to. Is that due to spacing ( washers ), or some other part not fitting right, or setup I just don't know.

It is not the oil you are using. It would not be my recommended oil either, but it isn't the root of the problem.

 

Any time you make a conversion like this, you have to use the right parts. These 2014+ inner hub assemblies stack up differently than the SV or DL earlier versions. I don't have much experience with these new style. But I would be certain I was using the right washers. I can tell you the 2014+ style pushes the clutch pack out toward the outer part of the clutch basket more than the early style. Which tells me spacing is critical to get right. The thickness of the big washers behind the clutch basket, in front of the clutch basket where the hub sits are critical. Make sure you have the all the parts that are intended for the 2014+ style inner hub. I don't even know if the steels are the same thickness as before? The most common issue on first generation bikes is the pressure plate not being engaged into the slots on the inner hub. But they usually won't hardly even move when like that. Yours moves down the road...but slips badly. Like Michael said, that should mean the pressure plate isn't applying all the pressure it is supposed to. Is that due to spacing ( washers ), or some other part not fitting right, or setup I just don't know.



It is not the oil you are using. It would not be my recommended oil either, but it isn't the root of the problem.

In general the steel plate thicknesses are the same. The main standard plates are 2.0mm, and then to adjust stack heights you can get the 2.3mm plates and also an optional 1.8mm plate. The SV plates can be used.

The frictions are unique to these bikes (31J product code) and need to be used for the conversion. These clutches use 3 of the large ID friction plates. One goes in at the judder spring, and the other two are the last plates in. The thickness of all the frictions are different. If I remember correctly the 14 and up bikes are 9 total friction plates and the older DL and the SV1000 are 10 friction plates.

The washer that goes behind the center hub is critical as you state. This washer does need to get swapped during the conversion to the DL 2.5mm thick washer that is common to all the year DL1000. The SV washer is huge at 5.8mm!

Cheers
-ms

 

It sounds like your stack height might be too small and the pressure plate is bottoming out on the center hub, or maybe the clutch can’t get full force onto the pack because of the slave or rod not being allowed to move full stroke properly?

Are you shimming the springs back from stock at all?

Vesrah clutch plates are typically good, but I always try to use OEMs. I have not had a set of the Vesrah plates in hand for a 14 and up DL so I can not comment.

I refuse to use or even pour Rotella into a bike if a customer supplies it.

-ms[/QUOTE]

What's wrong with rotella? I wasn't aware of any negative effects and it was recommended by a few friends of mine. What's a better oil to use??

When you say shimming the springs, what exactly are you referring to? The stock sv has 6 short springs, the updated DL1k set-up has 3 long springs. It's impossible to use the original springs from the sv.

As for master cylinder engagement, I rebuilt the master cylinder and cleaned up the slave cylinder and reassembled. I confirmed engagement last night before I put everything back together. I squeezed the clutch lever and everything looked normal.

Another issue I'm having is that the engine sounds very smooth and healthy but once I shift into first the bike keeps bucking until I'm above 3k rpm. I think maybe it's related to the front sprocket when I replaced it and the chain last weekend. I torqued the main bolt to 80 ft/lbs like the service manual says and there aren't stiff links in the chain so I'm at a loss with what the issue could be.

 

It sounds like your stack height might be too small and the pressure plate is bottoming out on the center hub, or maybe the clutch can’t get full force onto the pack because of the slave or rod not being allowed to move full stroke properly?

Are you shimming the springs back from stock at all?

Vesrah clutch plates are typically good, but I always try to use OEMs. I have not had a set of the Vesrah plates in hand for a 14 and up DL so I can not comment.

I refuse to use or even pour Rotella into a bike if a customer supplies it.

-ms

What's wrong with rotella? I wasn't aware of any negative effects and it was recommended by a few friends of mine. What's a better oil to use??

When you say shimming the springs, what exactly are you referring to? The stock sv has 6 short springs, the updated DL1k set-up has 3 long springs. It's impossible to use the original springs from the sv.

As for master cylinder engagement, I rebuilt the master cylinder and cleaned up the slave cylinder and reassembled. I confirmed engagement last night before I put everything back together. I squeezed the clutch lever and everything looked normal.

Another issue I'm having is that the engine sounds very smooth and healthy but once I shift into first the bike keeps bucking until I'm above 3k rpm. I think maybe it's related to the front sprocket when I replaced it and the chain last weekend. I torqued the main bolt to 80 ft/lbs like the service manual says and there aren't stiff links in the chain so I'm at a loss with what the issue could be.[/QUOTE]



By shimming I meant the DL springs as in the posts I talk about back shimming the springs to alter the break point/slip.

I don’t want to get into an oil battle. I do a fair number of engines and I have replaced lots of worn parts such as camshafts and buckets which were heavily worn after not that many miles. Indicators from oil analysis and owner history lead to using Rotella. Some Rotella versions will make a clutch slip. I dont’t know which ones because I won’t touch it, but I have had to drain it and put in other oil to keep clutch from slipping. After replacing with other oil, clutch is way better and bike shift a whole bunch better. Oils I use primarily are Motorex Power Synt 4T, Motul 3100 or 300V, Yamalube, or GN4 Honda. Any oil you use should be MA or MA2 certified which is the wet clutch spec.

What is your total stack thickness?
-ms

 

Good to know. I'll use a different oil should I not be able to resolve the issue I'm having. I was able to determine that the clutch lever I have isn't disengaging the clutch all the way which may be a factor in this whole ordeal.

As for the total thickness, I'd have to take the bike apart again to measure it. I'd like to test drive the bike again first to see if that resolved the problem. Since it's raining in the Bay Area right now I'm going to wait until it clears up.

On another note, I took the front sprocket off the bike again to see if it needed to be realigned or something. After putting it all back together, I'm still having the chain jumping issue which makes the bike really jerky when in gear. Maybe I'm overlooking something that's a simple fix but I can't figure it out for the life of me.

 

So I fixed the clutch slip issue...the aftermarket clutch lever I'm using (cheap eBay lever) isn't able to disengage the clutch unless the lever is maxed out to the full range. I ordered a crg lever in the hopes it will do a better job. Other than that, this bike rips!

Now it's time to fix the jumping chain issue and taking this thing to get dyno'd and the suspension set. There's no way I would have been able to do all of the work I've done without the help from this forum. Thank you to everyone who's been keeping this forum going!!

 

Now it's time to fix the jumping chain issue............

By jumping, you mean the chain is jumping teeth ?

Or the bike is really behaving badly and getting lots of lash under certain revs ? If thats the case, then its time for a throttle balance and TPS adjustment at a minimum.....may be other things, but thats the first stop.

 

Yeah, the Chinese crap seems to always have fitment issues. I dont know why I tried to save a buck...it ends up being more expensive in the end.

Well it's a new front and rear sprocket. Front sprocket is flat, no spacers are on it, alignment looks good to me and I adjusted the rear wheel a bunch of times thinking that was the issue, but, I know there's still an issue with the front sprocket since that's where a clacking noise is coming from. After looking at the service manual, there's supposed to be a spacer and o-ring between the shaft and the sprocket...$35 later and about a week for shipping from partzilla. I'm pretty surprised I've owned the bike this whole time and never noticed there wasn't one there.

 

The o-ring goes inside the sprocket spacer, not in between the spacer and sprocket.

You didn’t have a spacer on the shaft! It would blow oil all over.

-ms

 

Thanks for letting me know what goes where haha. What I don't understand is why wasn't the bike acting up like this when I first bought it and rode it from Eureka to San Francisco?? Maybe all of the other issues the bike was having masked it? Whatever the case, at least now this thing is sorted out since I took this whole bike completely apart from top to bottom. There is one question I do have though. Should I balance the throttle bodies before or after I get the bike tuned? I know it sounds like a dumb question, but I'm thinking if the bike is not mapped right, should I wait until the fuel delivery is sorted out first? I probably will check the valve clearances before I go through all that mess too.

I've changed the exhaust to a 2-to-1, installed a TRE, removed the PAIR system and installed block-off plates, installed a K&N filter, and cut out plastic in the top airbox to help with airflow which is why the bike is running really rich.

 

Thanks for letting me know what goes where haha. What I don't understand is why wasn't the bike acting up like this when I first bought it and rode it from Eureka to San Francisco?? Maybe all of the other issues the bike was having masked it? Whatever the case, at least now this thing is sorted out since I took this whole bike completely apart from top to bottom. There is one question I do have though. Should I balance the throttle bodies before or after I get the bike tuned? I know it sounds like a dumb question, but I'm thinking if the bike is not mapped right, should I wait until the fuel delivery is sorted out first? I probably will check the valve clearances before I go through all that mess too.



I've changed the exhaust to a 2-to-1, installed a TRE, removed the PAIR system and installed block-off plates, installed a K&N filter, and cut out plastic in the top airbox to help with airflow which is why the bike is running really rich.

I never send anything to the dyno that is not completely fresh. This includes oil, filter, air filter, valves checked, spark plugs, synch, TPS, fuel pressure/flow, healthy chain/sprocket, no shorted clutch switches and so forth.

-ms

 

THe vented air cleaner lid has always been a bit of no-go with me.....as the airflow in through the snorkel
has the effect of distributing the air more evenly across the filter, otherwise the air just tends to travel direct
to the throttle bodies, leaving the filter dirty in one small area....

Yes, wait until you have your fueling adjustments done properly, balance, TPS and that.....